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"it takes a village", and Hillary's got one working overtime to poison the well for any Dem candidate except herself. But, as she says herself, this is the "fun part" of campaigning.
Searching for corrupt, lobbyist loving John McCain?
by Lisa Lockwood on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:07:49 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Here's what one of the key negotiators in Lord Trimble’s Ulster Unionist Party during the peace talks in Ireland has to say about Hillary's usefulness as a mediator.
Steven King, a negotiator with Lord Trimble’s Ulster Unionist Party, argued that Mrs Clinton might even have helped delay the chances of peace. "She was invited along to some pre-arranged meetings but I don’t think she exactly brought anybody together that hadn’t been brought together already," he said. Mrs Clinton was "a cheerleader for the Irish republican side of the argument", he added. "She really lost all credibility when on Bill Clinton’s last visit to Northern Ireland [in December 2000] when she hugged and kissed [Sinn Fein leaders] Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness."
Steven King, a negotiator with Lord Trimble’s Ulster Unionist Party, argued that Mrs Clinton might even have helped delay the chances of peace. "She was invited along to some pre-arranged meetings but I don’t think she exactly brought anybody together that hadn’t been brought together already," he said. Mrs Clinton was "a cheerleader for the Irish republican side of the argument", he added.
"She really lost all credibility when on Bill Clinton’s last visit to Northern Ireland [in December 2000] when she hugged and kissed [Sinn Fein leaders] Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness."
Bit of a very public slap in the face to the Ulster delegation. Way to bring people together, eh?
by Lisa Lockwood on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:34:34 AM PDT
They're all the Ulster delegation, Adams and McGuinness are also from Ulster. David Trimble's side were Ulster Unionists (ie in favour of remaining in union with Britain)
"Families is where are nation finds hope, where wings take dream." - George Bush Jr
by bobcatster on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 07:18:48 AM PDT
Catholics from Ulster call themselves Irish. Protestants from Ulster call themselves Ulstermen, and tend to be of Scots or English descent. It's all about whether you believe Ulster should be a colonial province of the larger island next door, or a province of the smaller island on which it is situated.
Political Compass says: -8.88, -8.67 "We never sold out cos no one would buy."--J Neo Marvin
by expatyank on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:08:10 AM PDT
They're all just Irish
We will fight. We will win. This machine kills fascists.
by Elvis meets Nixon on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:26:20 AM PDT
They're all just irish.
by Lisa Lockwood on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:34:22 AM PDT
Grandpa is mean and he smells funny.
by MadAsHellMaddie on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:49:48 AM PDT
NI Prods tend to be "more English than English." I had the extreme misfortune to live not far from where Johnny Adair (NI Prod terrorist/gangster) was sent with his nasty clan by the witness relocation programme, and we had quite an influx of these Union Jack-waving, musclebound, skinhead-esque types from his camp. Let's just say he was unclear on the concept of keeping a low profile, LOL. They hold to a version of England when it was all-white and to the right, and groups like the UDA are in tight with right-wing racist gangs.
NI Prods also generally do not check "Irish" on their demographic forms in England--they check "English" because they live in Great Britain. Technically.
by expatyank on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 02:53:57 PM PDT
all this 'first lady negotiation' crap INFURIATES me. She didn't have access to all the information needed to mediate shit.
Ahhhhhhhhggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
BTW...when she did get classified reports about Iraq..SHE DIDN'T EVEN READ THEM.
~father...Father, the sleeper has awakened! ~Dune
by CWalter on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 07:27:44 AM PDT
attend the security council meetings, nor did she get daily intelligence briefings.
by Philoguy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:11:56 AM PDT
that she didn't have any security clearance? Only an idiot goes around flaunting that s/he has certain level of security clearance.
by louisprandtl on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:13:39 AM PDT
From the front page of the New York Times, December 26, 2007:
As first lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton jaw-boned the authoritarian president of Uzbekistan to leave his car and shake hands with people. She argued with the Czech prime minister about democracy. She cajoled Roman Catholic and Protestant women to talk to one another in Northern Ireland. She traveled to 79 countries in total, little of it leisure; one meeting with mutilated Rwandan refugees so unsettled her that she threw up afterward. But during those two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda. And during one of President Bill Clinton’s major tests on terrorism, whether to bomb Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, Mrs. Clinton was barely speaking to her husband, let alone advising him, as the Lewinsky scandal sizzled. In seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, Mrs. Clinton lays claim to two traits nearly every day: strength and experience. But as the junior senator from New York, she has few significant legislative accomplishments to her name. She has cast herself, instead, as a first lady like no other: a full partner to her husband in his administration, and, she says, all the stronger and more experienced for her "eight years with a front-row seat on history." Her rivals scoff at the idea that her background gives her any special qualifications for the presidency. Senator Barack Obama has especially questioned "what experiences she’s claiming" as first lady, noting that the job is not the same as being a cabinet member, much less president. And late last week, Mr. Obama suggested that more foreign policy experts from the Clinton administration were supporting his candidacy than hers; his campaign released a list naming about 45 of them, and said that others were not ready to go public. Mrs. Clinton quickly put out a list of 80 who were supporting her, and plans
As first lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton jaw-boned the authoritarian president of Uzbekistan to leave his car and shake hands with people. She argued with the Czech prime minister about democracy. She cajoled Roman Catholic and Protestant women to talk to one another in Northern Ireland. She traveled to 79 countries in total, little of it leisure; one meeting with mutilated Rwandan refugees so unsettled her that she threw up afterward.
But during those two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda.
And during one of President Bill Clinton’s major tests on terrorism, whether to bomb Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, Mrs. Clinton was barely speaking to her husband, let alone advising him, as the Lewinsky scandal sizzled.
In seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, Mrs. Clinton lays claim to two traits nearly every day: strength and experience. But as the junior senator from New York, she has few significant legislative accomplishments to her name. She has cast herself, instead, as a first lady like no other: a full partner to her husband in his administration, and, she says, all the stronger and more experienced for her "eight years with a front-row seat on history."
Her rivals scoff at the idea that her background gives her any special qualifications for the presidency. Senator Barack Obama has especially questioned "what experiences she’s claiming" as first lady, noting that the job is not the same as being a cabinet member, much less president.
And late last week, Mr. Obama suggested that more foreign policy experts from the Clinton administration were supporting his candidacy than hers; his campaign released a list naming about 45 of them, and said that others were not ready to go public. Mrs. Clinton quickly put out a list of 80 who were supporting her, and plans
to release another 75 names on Wednesday.
Hey, Brian Ross! Who Lied To You About the Anthrax?
by tbetz on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:03:31 AM PDT
Thanks for diggin' it up.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -- Mark Twain
by Riddle on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:31:27 AM PDT
and Jason Blair. Senator Clinton, then Ms. Clinton had an office in the West Wing. If you can get a job in the West Wing without a security clearance, let me know..Good luck.. BTW there are different level of security clearances. Just because somebody did not attend NSC meetings does not mean they didn't have SC. Your quoted piece seems to be a hit piece often planted by opposing campaigns in the Press.
by louisprandtl on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:42:52 AM PDT
... wrong, Hillary would have issued a correction over at HillaryHub, wouldn't she?
Where is that correction? She's had two months to correct the record.
by tbetz on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:53:30 AM PDT
having a security clearance is something to be disclosed publicly. Being a member of Senate Armed Services Committee, I'm sure she holds currently a security clearance at some level, but would she publicly flaunt it? For what? To correct some hit piece in NYTimes? I don't think somebody can work at West Wing without some level of a security clearance. Maybe I'm wrong but the probability of such seems to be extremely small. That would be huge lapse in our national security.
by louisprandtl on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 01:53:15 PM PDT
... to let a false New York Times front-page story go uncorrected.
by tbetz on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 02:24:38 PM PDT
I went back and checked out some of the related discussion on the NYTimes article. Senator Clinton did not explicitly state that she had or didn't have security clearance. She admitted to receiving classified debriefing. Now if she had SC then my point is proven. But if she hadn't then it's violation of the law unless President decided to declassify the briefings. Watch her interview with George Stephanopoulos on this very issue...I'll have to say..this is very confusing..
http://www.youtube.com/...
by louisprandtl on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:30:33 PM PDT
I should have included a link in my post. I got irritated and typed off a post before heading out to work and didn't prepare the post properly.
Again...Thank you so much!
by CWalter on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:26:13 PM PDT
Because of my military background I have/had a goddamn security clearance...and there is nothing that precludes me from saying so.
/*idiot* off
by CWalter on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:18:06 PM PDT
saying so. But is it good idea for a person to publicly proclaim that they have access to classified data especially to enemies of this nation? I differ with your viewpoint. I think it is silly and not a good practice.
by louisprandtl on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:53:03 PM PDT
or the military to have a security clearance. It is a surprise that she DIDN'T. Especially with all the claims of foreign experience she is making.
by CWalter on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:41:15 PM PDT
re the peace process but I would be very wary of quoting the Ulster Unionists to bolster an argument.
John McCain is anti-choice
by stevej on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 07:30:59 AM PDT
that SHE recommended speak for her 'experience" I found in an article, can check it out, what it says is that she had NO FORMAL experience in negotitating she was along as the wife of the president and engaged in talks around dinner, and i hardly think a Republican from her home state would not be biased and willing to pad for her with the right words:.
Here’s Representative (Pete) King’s take: "She was actively involved. It was George Mitchell who was negotiating and Bill Clinton who was calling a lot of the shots but Hillary, first of all she had access to the President on I think it was three trips to Northern Ireland. She knew all of the players on a first-name basis....She was certainly more than just someone along for the ride. She spoke with some authority. I consider her to be a serious player. I say that as someone who supports John McCain and wants Hillary Clinton defeated in November. But fair is fair." He then spoke about a meeting about arms decommissioning in December 1998. "That was right after Trimble and Hume were given the Nobel Peace Prize. There was a big dinner in Washington for all the players in the peace process. .......there was President Clinton and Gerry Adams and Hillary Clinton and they were talking about decommissioning – that was still the issue, who would go first and how it would be done. Hillary was part of that conversation."
Here’s Representative (Pete) King’s take: "She was actively involved. It was George Mitchell who was negotiating and Bill Clinton who was calling a lot of the shots but Hillary, first of all she had access to the President on I think it was three trips to Northern Ireland. She knew all of the players on a first-name basis....She was certainly more than just someone along for the ride. She spoke with some authority. I consider her to be a serious player. I say that as someone who supports John McCain and wants Hillary Clinton defeated in November. But fair is fair."
He then spoke about a meeting about arms decommissioning in December 1998. "That was right after Trimble and Hume were given the Nobel Peace Prize. There was a big dinner in Washington for all the players in the peace process. .......there was President Clinton and Gerry Adams and Hillary Clinton and they were talking about decommissioning – that was still the issue, who would go first and how it would be done. Hillary was part of that conversation."
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/...
"People should not vote for any Republican, because they're dangerous, dishonest and self-serving"
by Wary on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:20:34 AM PDT
Peter King is a vociferous supporter of the IRA/Catholic side of the dispute.
by TLS66 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:49:25 AM PDT
by Lisa Lockwood on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:35:04 AM PDT
... which, combined with his knowledge that McCain can beat Hillary easier than Obama, explains his willingness to vouch for her.
by tbetz on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:04:53 AM PDT
to save the village.
It takes a village, to destroy the village, to save the village. Or something like that. I get confused.
by Sparky McGruff on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 06:52:39 AM PDT
wide narrow
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