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Obama has learned something most attorneys fail to learn after years of experience: How to convince without looking like you're trying to convince. It's the automatic gravitas of confidence.
NetrootNews coming soon!
by ksh01 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:11:07 PM PDT
equal "confidence"?
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but it makes me shudder.
by Plutonium Page on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:12:50 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
by ksh01 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:14:02 PM PDT
It's pure nationalism. It's patriotism gone wild. Icky.
But it looks like people fall for it in the US, which is what's important in November.
by Plutonium Page on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:16:12 PM PDT
but their use is not definitive of belief in the doctrine.
Nationalism is a term referring to a doctrine[1] or political movement[2] that holds that a nation—usually defined in terms of ethnicity or culture—has the right to constitute an independent or autonomous political community based on a shared history and common destiny.[3] Most nationalists believe the borders of the state should be congruent with the borders of the nation.[4], although nationalists rarely believe that their own state should be made smaller. Extreme forms of nationalism, such as those propagated by fascist movements in the twentieth century, hold that nationality is the most important aspect of one's identity while some of them have attempted to define the nation in terms of race or genetics.
It's wikipedia and used for expediency. But you get the idea.
If your position is that any time Obama (or any candidate) appears in front of flags they are espousing nationalism, that tells me your understanding of the doctrine is somewhat shallow. No offense intended.
by ksh01 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:21:44 PM PDT
than Jerome's spot on analysis is the obvious to me point that there are people who engineer what they say rather than say it.
From the analysis comes the backwards engineering that results in ever more sophisticated sophistry.
That's simplistic yeah yeah, but just when I think I'm too cynical in my outlook, along comes somebody that rachets that view one more click. It's been a very long time since I read Vance Packard and in horror tried not to think about it any more...didn't work.
Sen. McMeatwad (R) for pResident.
by KenBee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:26:23 PM PDT
he hasn't said a kind thing about Obama and is a Hillary shill. I stopped reading him a long time ago. But thought today I would give it another try.
But instead of praising this speech as one of the best he has heard, he give us this psycho babble. The only true statement is that it is over and Obama has won.
by ronnied on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:39:33 PM PDT
A Hillary shill?
Because I wrote a couple of diaries critical of Obama's foreign policy speeches from a foreigner's perspective (while noting that Hillary Clinton was no better on these topics), you call me a "Hillary shill"?
This is beyond parody.
And I did not even write today's diary.
European Tribune / The Oil Drum / EA2020
by Jerome a Paris on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:46:32 PM PDT
"Bringing Us Togeather" is there? <g>
Subtlety is the art of saying what you think and getting out of the way before it is understood.
by Granny Doc on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:47:48 PM PDT
Anyone who isn't overtly laying flowers at Obama's feet = "Hillary shill". At least to some.
"Jiminy God!" --Larry Craig, on the shocking notion that anyone might think he was gay
by rlamoureux on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:49:11 PM PDT
As a direct result of the filthy campaign Hillary has been running.
by Bluesman48 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:00:47 PM PDT
Aha! Even worse: You are shilling for a Hillary shill! Man, that's bottom of the barrel...
;-)
(Uhm, that's snark, for those about to rush to his defense...)
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
by poemless on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:55:00 PM PDT
by cappy on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:02:22 PM PDT
... Jerome Armstrong does qualify as a Hillary Shill, but not you ;-)
Misled Into War: A Timeline/DowningStreetMemo.com
by highacidity on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:13:36 PM PDT
So the standard disclaimer: I am not Jerome!
by Jerome a Paris on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:27:22 PM PDT
I've been a sporadic guest here for the most part, and I wasn't really sure until the strike diary when I saw Armstrong as one of the recommenders. No harm meant.
"Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding up both puppets!" -Bill Hicks
by Tismo70 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:58:31 PM PDT
who quoted someone else, and DIDN'T put their words in the blockquote box, like you're supposed to.
No need to yell at others for YOUR mistake.
I didn't take you for arrogant. Guess I was wrong.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! - President Merkin Muffley
by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:23:14 PM PDT
There one sentence above the fold, which says: "The text below the fold was written by ThatBritGuy over at European Tribune. I thought it might be interesting to you guys and am crossposting it here with his kind authorisation."
I did not put the whole diary in a blockquote because it's not very pleasant to read that way; I thought I had made an explicit enough announcement, using a natural separation above and below the fold.
My apologies if that's still confusing, it was not my intention. But I don't see where you find arrogance in what I wrote above?
by Jerome a Paris on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:30:45 PM PDT
meticulous readers we all are here. Half of us don't even get past the title before we start throwing feces.
No biggy.
by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:36:52 PM PDT
At first, I thought those were ThatBritGuy's words. But when I went to the original diary, they aren't there.
So, are they your words? But I thought you were a "French energy banker."
So, color me confused! I like that preamble but whose perspective is it?
We're in a culture that increasingly holds that science is just another belief. - Alan Alda
by sawgrass727 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 04:38:04 PM PDT
that the italicized part is an intro ThatBritGuy added for dKos's benefit.
by Daneel on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:39:10 AM PDT
as I said above, and since there are those who are calling you a shill (I'm certainly not saying or implying that)(I hope)I thought about it a while and have a question: Since you quoted ThatBritGuy's words, and it's as yet unclear as to who's words are whose, that actually doesn't interest me as much as the questions that floated up in my Magic 8 Ball brain hours later that read:
*Are you suggesting his speech was engineered by People Who Do That?
*Isn't that a subtle way of undercutting the narrative which has been that he wrote that himself in two days, and only showed it to a few advisors?
*Is this damming with faint praise, just 'engineered' to look like analysis?
That would be a way, probably meaningless, to try weaken the mojo he's getting for that terrific speech.
Answer here please so I don't have to chase you. No one will see it. Heh.
by KenBee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:04:51 PM PDT
I did not watch the speech, but found TBG's analysis worth noting. He's a respected member of the community at ET. It's possible to take his words as high praise or as an indictment, and it's probably a bit of both.
by Jerome a Paris on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:28:38 PM PDT
I sense a certain lack of ability to contemplate anything outside a very very narrrow candidate-partisan frame over here.
by Daneel on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:54:38 AM PDT
It's by a dkos authority on the Obama team's visual effects, especially the logo: .
by ybruti on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:39:24 PM PDT
by Daneel on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:01:50 AM PDT
JeromeaMyDD is the Hillary fan, not JeromeaParis.
by ksh01 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:20:29 PM PDT
this is a revelation to you? there are several classes of people who engineer what they say in order to communicate more effectively. in no particular order:
i could probably go on for a while, but perhaps you get the point.
l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!
by zeke L on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:06:56 PM PDT
by ybruti on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:30:45 PM PDT
Is voting for the war to make war less likely.
Ortiz/Ramírez '08
by theran on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:47:21 PM PDT
...whatever Queen Inevitable did, it was right.
Proper.
Correct.
Unassailable.
Dixie Chicks, Amy Winehouse, Imus, and Rev. Wright. Overcome our evil with good.
by vets74 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 04:56:49 PM PDT
of Jeremiah Wright and Michelle's "proud" comments day after day after day in October, Obama may very well need to wear an American flag tuxedo.
If he needs to wrap himself in the flag, I'd let him go ahead and do. This isn't a fair fight. The GOP has screwed the country royally, but the MSM, Fox News and an army of 527's will only look at the horse shit.
The Book of Revelation is not a foreign policy manual.
by Dont Just Stand There on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:08:50 PM PDT
And we are going to give O'Bama $1,000,000,000 to make sure that he buys all the time he needs for this one.
Yeah, a billion dollars.
Five times what we have given so far for the primary.
We must buy back this country, America.
by vets74 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:00:39 PM PDT
it's not nationalism. not even patriotism. it's the work/knowledge of a good visual designer.
by AngryFinn on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:32:21 PM PDT
In the spirit of this diary, look at it another way. It's marketing, pure and simple. Yes, you are right, it works in this country. You have to play to your target market. It's genius, really.
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. ~Mark Twain
by TexH on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:48:21 PM PDT
to call American's back to their founding ideals. That is the right type of patriotism, and I for one, will be more proud of my country the day Obama lays his hand on that bible than at any time in my lifetime. And I will be 53 by then.
by PLS on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:52:14 PM PDT
newspapers, tv news, online news, they all make use of a bank of images. AP provides an image service in the same way they provide a news one. So it is important to recognize that your candidate or your own face is going to be plastered all over the place anytime you fart in public. Its wise to think about what that image looks like. It is how you will be defined.
by pd1969 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:15:37 PM PDT
Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.Give to Populista's Obamathon 2.0!
by TrueBlueMajority on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:18:36 PM PDT
thanks.
by ksh01 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:25:28 PM PDT
Notice that guy standing deliberately in front of the flags after they've been picked up, in the shot? What the heck?
I feel backstabbed.
by Decih on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:29:20 PM PDT
by ksh01 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:47:54 PM PDT
by theran on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:30:53 PM PDT
if I'm mistaken, but aren't the gold fringed American flags displayed behind Mrs. Clinton known as battle flags? The ones behind Mr. Obama are the more every day variety. As long as the diary is about the subtle means of communication, is this relevant?
All the world over I will back the masses against the classes. Gladstone
by DaNang65 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:22:39 PM PDT
and yellow frinnnnge!
crazy, for the blue white red and yellow!
a song from the musical HAIR.
I do think the yellow fringe signifies some sort of military/battle flag, but I'm not sure.
by TrueBlueMajority on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:21:44 PM PDT
all those flags that touched the floor?
And doesn't it look like Bush who comes through the curtain and fucks things up?
by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:42:24 PM PDT
Flags should not be displayed touching anything beneath them:
The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
if a flag touches the ground, it should simply be moved so that it no longer touches the ground.
lots of people (me included) were taught that "burn a flag that touches the ground" business but it is not in fact in the flag code.
by TrueBlueMajority on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:11:49 PM PDT
the campaign have? We still see the photo of Bush with his head slightly bowed over the podium, with the presidential seal behind him making a veritable halo over his head. Do handlers and campaign staff actually take the pictures? And then media just uses those?
Because if thats the case, Hilary needs a better staff. All of the shots you see of her are weird and awful looking.
If the media people are choosing the images, then it seems that Obama is getting much better pictures than the other two, which would imply that he is the media favorite.
"YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who
by Reepicheep on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:40:47 PM PDT
is in his movements. When you see him in person, he's easy in his own self on stage. He's confident. His body language projects that.
Stop McCain.
by jancw on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:24:23 PM PDT
it bleeds over into slight cockiness, but it's WAY overreacted on by the likes of the closet racists.
by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:40:21 PM PDT
Backgrounds for press conferences at world summits often have a flag of each nation, displayed in a similar way as the 4 American flags in Obama's picture. People will unconciously link the number of flags and the way they are displayed to other pictures they have seen where flags are displayed in a similar manner and link to the world leader / statesman feeling as well.
Obama's 4 flags say: this is a world leader. Clinton's one big flag says: this is a politician at a rally.
Vote for McCain to continue the fight against al-Qaeda, vote for Obama to finish it. </war>
by Calouste on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:39:21 PM PDT
... around others is not manufactured, and specifically is not manufactured by the person being viewed. The assumption is false, but no matter. Obama appears to have been already presidentialized. The confidence assumed is not Obama's -- it is the people's. The unconscius thought is" oh - hei is already president - who am I to disagree?" This is not (in kind) different from Bush and McCain saying "We are winning". It is more subyle and effective, however.
Two war crimes make 'the right', not 'a right'. Defeat the liar John McCain.
by Yellow Canary on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:51:04 PM PDT
morning while driving and heard it suggested that America is still a white supremacist nation, not in the context of Ruby Ridge,d Waco and the KKK (or any other examples you can think of of extreme behaviour) but white is still the DOMINANT culture, no matter what demographics say, if they do, I don''t know, not being a statistician.
Therefore i think the American flag also is a symbol of power and the supreme leader. Therefore like it or not, it is used visually as a powerful symbol of being the winner. Sort of 'look, I'm as/more/equal American as you are'. The interesting thing symbolically is that it has never been used as such a powerful symbol as stating a black man has as much right as a white man to use the flag as his symbol.
Again, like it or not, accept it or not, we, the people are powerfully moved by symbolism, be it the flag, the national anthem (which is a rallying cry to war in my mind).
In essence all any of it is props on a stage to impress those who don't feel like thinking things through for themselves. We've moved way beyond FDR sitting in his sweater chatting us up in front of the fire. Also a powerfully symbolic image, showing the patrician is one of the hoi polloi. That's why W gave his 'Mission Accomplished' bit on the biggest battleship in the fleet and turned it around to show he was on his way, instead of slinking back into port. Also why whatever his name was rode a guided missile to earth in Dr. Strangelove.
As my friend used to say 'It's all a game, love, it's all a game'!!!!!
by soccergrandmom on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:00:37 PM PDT
...to earth in Dr. Strangelove."
Slim Pickens.
"Iraq: the bravest 1% fighting for the richest 1%." ~ An Unknown Kossack.
by Neon Vincent on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:37:23 PM PDT
by soccergrandmom on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:43:38 PM PDT
was accomplished, all right....he accomplished the mission of keeping the Lincoln out to sea an extra day while having his little staged photo-op. There were families in Bremerton waiting for that ship to come in. Kids had to wait an extra day to see their daddies for the first time ever. That is glossed over every time we talk about the "mission accomplished" photo-op.
Don't forget those Bremerton families. They're my neighbors.
Want to be a living kidney donor? I need one from someone with a bloodtype of B or O. Drop a note at riverheart.livejournal.com.
by Kitsap River on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:23:07 PM PDT
by soccergrandmom on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 04:00:22 PM PDT
most people, alright nearly all, can't tell you the difference between AUMF, NIE, PNAC, the IRI, or how having a universal mandate differs from no mandate.
The flags tell a story, and story is the simplest and most primitive form of explanation.
I shudder at humanity as well.
Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.
by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:04:44 PM PDT
in this diary.
Care to sing another one?
by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:33:44 PM PDT
It's the air of someone who doesn't have to convince anyone, because he KNOWS he is right. Not believes. Not hopes. Not intends. He knows it. He's the man who doesn't have to win because he's won already. And that is the mark of a true leader.
The timing of this speech, coming during Holy Week, is uncanny. This is the most Christian speech of the entire campaign. Why? Because he is speaking to the improvement of mankind: a more perfect union. His goal is to bring people together, to remove the walls and boundaries that seperate us. The mention of his grandmother reminded me of, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
There's almost a martyr quality to the context of the speech: He knows it's gonna hurt. He knows things will never be the same again. But he can do it, can get through it, because he's right, and after it's all over (and I mean ALL OVER) everyone will know he was right, all along.
The first time the audience clapped, nearly half way into the speech, I knew he had them. And I thought at that instant, "He's just won the election."
Ignore this week's polls. Wait and hear what they have to say next week.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connaît point. (The heart has its reasons, which reason does not know.) ~ Blaise Pascal
by nwreader on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:01:27 PM PDT
uppity negro
The trick is, finding nefarious ways of stating that without actually stating it. It's gonna get worse for the general, because McCain is gonna have Rove on the payroll.
by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:27:00 PM PDT
wide narrow
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