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to vote today.
And I proudly casted for Barack Obama...and his seven delegates.
"I hate the gooks. I'll hate them as long as I live." -- John McCain
by wmtriallawyer on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 05:30:44 AM PDT
the world unelectable to describe ANY of our candidates, but the sole exception to that would be if superdelegates were to overturn the decision of the voters; the animus towards the Democratic Party that would ensue nationwide would be a nightmare. Let's keep the hated party among independents and new voters the Republican Party, and not compete for that distinction.
Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.
by ShadowSD on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 05:42:59 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
for the length of this post. It was originally a response to Mr. Shay, the superdelegate who requested our input in his decision on whom to support. That diary vanished all too quickly.
Here's how I responded:
and thank you, Mr. Shay, for asking. #8 is the key this year. The media like to simplify things, but I happen to agree that, on policy issues, very little separates Clinton from Obama. The difference between the two, however, is palpable, when we look at approach, energy, and broad appeal. In voicing the latter two, I suspect it's obvious I prefer Barack Obama. But if Senator Clinton wins more pledged delegates (not counting FL and MI--sadly, those two states were demoted to beauty contests this year), I would think it unfair for superdelegates to vote for Obama.
Given their commonalities on policy, given that they are both electable, and given their abilities (under positive nomination circumstances) to unite the party and attract non-Democratic voters in November, I believe that consideration #8 ought to be the decisive factor.
Or look at your considerations from a negative perspective: Is there any likelihood that choosing the candidate who wins more pledged delegates, more caucuses and primaries, and more of the popular vote would lead to a revolt within the party? No. True, this has been a wonderfully hard-fought, energizing primary season, but it has not descended into mud-slinging and vitriol. Look across the aisle for a delightful contrast, in which the presumptive nominee is reviled and distrusted by much of the party faithful. But given our giant civics lesson in the hyperproportionality of Democratic delegate apportionment, we have become highly attuned to the rules established by our party, which allot delegates in proportion to the preference of voters. The welter of rules by state is confusing, but there's something very refreshing about their contrast with the winner-take-all system of the Electoral College. This has been, as many have said, the best reality show on television, and we have watched as, contest by contest, the results have come in and the delegates have been apportioned. To supersede this process via the mass support of superdelegates for the second-place candidate would be to send a powerfully destructive message. To hear explanations of superdelegates basing their decisions upon "their years of experience" and "deep knowledge of electoral politics" would be more than disheartening. It would come across as paternalistic, as willfully disdainful of this democratic process, as a slap in the face to grassroots activists who believed that were participating in--even shaping--democracy in action.
And it would be ugly. This is the wrong forum for threats, and I say this only by way of demonstrating my strong feelings on the subject: I would not vote for the Democratic candidate in November if he or she won that nomination thanks to superdelegates who overlooked the will of the voters as expressed in the totals of pledged delegates. I would give neither money nor energy to that candidate. I would respond this way whether the beneficiary was Obama or Clinton, although I find it difficult to believe that, if Clinton comes on strong and secures the most pledged delegates, the superdelegates would ignore her win and political heft and boost Obama to the nomination. My fears are based on the opposite scenario, in which Obama continues to build his lead among pledged delegates and is yet cheated, as I view it, out of the nomination.
And note that Florida's and Michigan's delegates could be used as pawns to cheat him out of the nomination. All of the candidates were told well ahead of time that the FL and MI delegates would not be seated. Clinton was quoted last fall on NPR as saying that she understood that the MI results would not count and that the only reason she kept her name on the ballot was to not "insult" the state's voters. Obama, who has continually demonstrated his success at improving his standing with voters once they get to know him, honored his pledge by not campaigning in Florida. A national Obama aired in Florida because, well, because it was a national ad. Clinton did not actively campaign in Florida, but she flew from her loss in South Carolina directly to Florida for a fundraiser that surely had the secondary (if not primary) purpose of getting her name and face in front of the Floridians about to vote in their unsanctioned primary. Remember that night? The media were reporting that Bill Clinton was speaking on his wife's behalf while she flew to Florida; it was by design an attention-getting visit. In every state but Florida and Michigan, the candidates have had equal opportunities to fight for and win over voters. To seat the FL and MI delegates would be to tip a heretofore balanced playing field decidedly in Clinton's favor.
Nor is it at all germane to accord more weight to the winner of "large states." The larger states already have more delegates, and big victories in large states already have the power to tip the balance. Once the delegates are apportioned, they count no more than do delegates from smaller states. Indeed, I am bewildered by any argument that dismisses the virtue of generating excitement and record turnouts in states that are not already reliable Democratic strongholds.
Finally, a word or two (ha!) on how the superdelegates' votes would affect the nominee and the party coming out of the convention. If the superdelegates support the winner of the most pledged delegates, there will be no revolt. There will be no media meme of the Democratic Party at war with itself or in disarray. There will be no delighted, hypocritical schadenfreude from the Republican hot-air machine about the dirty politics played by Democrats. There won't be the prospect of millions of disillusioned voters--especially young voters (although I'm hardly young). There won't be anything stopping us from taking back the White House and bolstering our numbers substantially in Congress.
On the other hand, if superdelegates vote in sufficient numbers for the candidate who clearly lost the primaries, I believe all of these terrible things will come to pass.
Here's what I'd like to see: I would welcome an announcement by Senator Obama that he, as a superdelegate, will pledge to support whichever candidate secures the majority of pledged delegates from the sanctioned primaries and caucuses (i.e., all of them except FL and MI), and that he hopes all of the superdelegates will do the same. And then I'd like to see the superdelegates follow his lead. (As part of this, I'd like the Clintons to be asked what they think of this approach to deciding whom to support).
Thank you so much for asking for our thoughts on the matter!
Sincerely, Deminva
by deminva on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 05:59:52 AM PDT
would welcome an announcement by Senator Obama that he, as a superdelegate, will pledge to support whichever candidate secures the majority of pledged delegates from the sanctioned primaries and caucuses
Talk about a conflict of interests. If someone is a candidate, they should not be a superdelegate.
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:56:10 AM PDT
Bill Clinton
I'll walk 100 miles knocking on doors for my Dem candidate - Anna Lord for Colo HD21 - will you?
by tjlord on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:13:17 AM PDT
and vote for Obama??
"we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower
by bobdevo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:20:18 AM PDT
how primaries don't really matter because they are dominated by "activists".
sounds a lot like Holy Joe.
witness the GOPRANOS.. rethugs: "If they fuck with me or Shaha, I have enough on them to fuck them too." -Paul Wolfowitz, quoted by the UK's Guardian
by change the Be on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:59:28 AM PDT
That doesn't mean it's not a conflict of interest.
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:29:46 AM PDT
by tjlord on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 10:31:50 AM PDT
delegates, he'll simply withdraw. Of course, that would be extraordinarily surprising at this point.
by Nick Blas on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:49:40 AM PDT
...so I don't know why everyone is buying into this Corporate Owned News (CONs), scandal driven, manufactured outrage story. The fact is, most of the super delegates are elected official, former elected officals, and party leaders. They are politicians, first and foremost, and as such, when it gets down to brass tacks, the will wet their fingers, stick them in the air, see which way the wind is blowing and act accordingly. If Obama is ahead going into the election, then he will be the nominee. You can take that to the bank...
I want my Two Dollars!
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:01:53 AM PDT
It's so stupid to go against the will of the public that it wouldn't happen.
by ShadowSD on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:04:50 AM PDT
...Media "concern trolls" like Bill Press, Dan Abrahms, Chris Matthews, Howard Fineman...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:09:03 AM PDT
The insiders who aren't elected have been destroying the party for years. They are the reason the party had the image, for many years, of being above the people.
Around here we laugh at the Republicans who call the Democratic party elitist, but these insiders are elitists and profiteers. They turn the party away from the interests of the voters even when they don't affect the nomination as delegates.
These superdelegates must be given the boot.
"It's the planet, stupid."
by FishOutofWater on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:40:55 AM PDT
...if that is truly their motivation, why should they care who gets the nomination? They can certainly profit just as much from a President Obama as they can from a President Hillary! Why would they jeopardize profit to through the nomination to whomever isn't the "will of the people" candidate? I think they are savvy enough to "Live to profit another day"...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:48:10 AM PDT
Obama simply wastes less money on political consultants.
by Nick Blas on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:56:42 AM PDT
the turnout numbers so far this year...
Defying a charged up electorate is a good way not to have to worry about them (or your political career) anymore.
"I teach Sunday School Mutherf&@#er!"-S.Colbert
by Independant Man on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:51:49 AM PDT
I notice that most all the people throbbing about this have no idea who they are in fact. Facts? Here's the list. Notice how it includes your state's people, some of whom you likely approve of. Wiki: List of 2008 United States Democratic Party Superdelegates
Charlie Brown for Congress
by Rolfyboy6 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:08:13 AM PDT
is not just a list, but the financial connections any of these people have to particular candidates. Expand the examples given in the diary and let's see how widespread this practice is--or isn't.
by Heart of the Rockies on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:23:29 AM PDT
I've given you the leads. I'm not your unpaid researcher. People around here are lazy that way. It's easier to demonize than to learn anything.
by Rolfyboy6 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:36:35 AM PDT
No.
Do I have time?
No. I work for a living.
Do you need to be hostile in your response?
by Heart of the Rockies on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:00:03 AM PDT
why are superdelegates being lobbied?
Why are members of the campaigns, including Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea Clinton and John Kerry, calling these people? It's going on right now.
I'll say why. It's because this is an election system vulnerable to rigging by insiders. And we're witnessing how it's being done.
The notion that superdelegates will do the right thing and vote for the winner of the pledged delegates ignores the effort being put into making them do otherwise. And the notion that they're incorruptable because many of them are elected politicians, well doesn't that make the person saying that blush? US Senators we all know are bought and sold by lobbyists every day. Bought by credit card company lobbyists. Owned by war industry lobbyists. Who trusts these people as being beyond any temptation? I don't.
Superdelegates supposedly exist to save us from our foolish votes. I want them just to get the hell out of our way.
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:45:36 AM PDT
...why are the VOTERS being lobbied by the candidates? There is no "there" there...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:08:45 AM PDT
why are Hillary, Bill, Chelsea, and John Kerry calling these people? I sure doubt it's to ensure that they honor the decision of the people.
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:25:04 AM PDT
Duh! Just like they ask voters for their support...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:45:40 AM PDT
the people's decision.
Are you a Hillary supporter?
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:51:29 AM PDT
The facts are the facts, and believe me, there are for more worthy things to concentrate on than this total non-issue...
If you really wanted to see who I support, the record is public. Just click on my name and read for yourself...
(Here's a hint: I'm an Edwards believer...)
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:22:08 AM PDT
I'll say clearly who I support. Barack. And I'll also state clearly that I want the votes of Democrats respected, whether that results in Barack or Hillary winning. This issure of wheeling and dealing superdelegates to ignore my vote will not go away by "blaming the media."
Who do you support between Barack and Hillary?
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:31:20 AM PDT
...so give it up...
Here is your assignment: Go out into the tubes and find out why we have super delegates, then report back to me. Also, you may want to read Mark Greens piece on The Huffington Post. I rarely agree with the man, but he was spot-on today:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:59:22 AM PDT
And I don't go on assignments. I consider myself an equal.
As I said, don't patronize me.
The Minnesota primary was held February 5th. Who did you vote for?
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:15:52 AM PDT
...as I said above, is in my comments and in the public domain...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:47:01 AM PDT
and I don't want to go on a wild goose chase. How 'bout a simple answer.
I'm asking for the same reason that I suspect the motives of superdelegates. Nobody knows who all these people are, other than by name, what they're being offered for their votes, and why they can be persuaded to vote against the will of the people, which they obviously can be or the campaigns wouldn't be lobbying them. I'm for an open process. This whole thing stinks like hell, and shills for this stinking mess should quit hiding and tell us who they are.
I'm for Barack and I want my vote to count. Who are you for and why do you not want my vote to count?
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:03:00 AM PDT
...as clearly documented in numerous comments, and even in THE FIRST FUCKING DIARY at the top of my page, I proudly voted for John Edwards, even after he suspended his campaign, and I'd do it again. Did you steal my tinfoil hat, the one I can't operate my time machine without? You sure act like you did, so give it back! (And if you don't have any idea what I am talking about, read the first diary on my page.) Fuck!
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:16:57 AM PDT
You voted for Edwards, a candidates whose campaign was suspended before your primary.
So your vote counted for zilch. Is that why you want mine to not count either?
I was there for Florida 2000. Ralph Nader voters, SCOTUS, Repugs telling me to get over it...
I didn't shut up then or since, and I won't now. I simply want my vote to count. Dude, why do you not want my vote to count? Should I add: Fuck!?
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:34:41 AM PDT
It's the PRIMARY SEASON! Comparing my vote for Edwards to Florida 2000 is not only disingenuous, it's patently Rovian! Are you trying to deny me MY vote? How fucking dare you! Vote for whomever you want. All I'm saying is you continue to make much ado about NOTHING! Meanwhile, in the Senate, DEMOCRATS, "led" by Harry Reid, just voted to make spying on you A-Fucking-O-K, and they gave the law-breaking Telcos immunity to boot! And here you are worried about some fascist plot to steal your vote. Incredible! Not only FUCK! But DOUBLE FUCK!!
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:44:22 AM PDT
I am suspicious as hell of anyone who is working as hard as you are to disenfranchise voters in this primary. Insulting people who want our votes counted isn't a winning argument. I heard it all before in 2000. The only expanation that makes sense to me is that you are not being honest about who you now support and would prefer that our votes not be respected. Sorry, but you never convinced me of the purity of your motive. The stuttering when I asked the simple question gave it away.
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:57:04 AM PDT
...I support Edwards. I always have, since 2003. My public record on Daily Kos supports that, for those who bother to read it. Now give me back my tinfoil hat! Now! I need it to see if the Johan Santana trade works out, because if it doesn't, I'm not going to waste my time on the Twins this year...
(As far as the "disenfranchise voters in the primary" thing goes, do you always give up your power so easliy? Man, that is pathetic. Nobody is taking your vote away, no matter how irrationally paranoid you behave...)
(As far as insulting people goes, have you read any of the comments from the Pro-Bamabots or the Hilldroids around here? Sheesh, talk about insulting. As if telling me I wasted my vote, or comparing my vote in a fucking caucus preference poll to voting for Nader isn't insulting. Whatever...)
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:11:30 PM PDT
Not sure how it appears that I'm giving up on getting my vote counted.
It's not going to work, to keep telling folks to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, to just watch the hoopla and applaud respectfully. The man behind the curtain is making a lot of phone calls right now to super exalted delegates, trying to get them to supercede our choice.
It's baffling to me how anyone can approve of that, unless a person is worried that the superdelegates for their candidate might be needed to overturn our vote. We're not Republicans here, after all, and should not act like them. I guess I need that hat back to understand.
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:30:56 PM PDT
...for your conspiracy theory argument, my guy suspended his campaign, remember. So I don't have a dog in this fight. I have stated, publicly, that I will support whomever the Democratic Nominee is. As far as I'm concerned, both Obama and Clinton are just a little too comfortable with the corporate kleptocracy for my tastes, but they are still orders of magnitude better than anyone the Dark Side has to offer...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:58:23 PM PDT
someone with no dog in this fight...
Why is only one candidate willing to have the will of the voters stand?
During a news conference Friday in Seattle, Obama said if he wins a majority of the caucus and primary delegates, he should get the nomination. He said "it would be problematic for political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voters." http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/...
During a news conference Friday in Seattle, Obama said if he wins a majority of the caucus and primary delegates, he should get the nomination. He said "it would be problematic for political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voters."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/...
Try to find a statement like that by Hillary.
by deben on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:14:55 PM PDT
...I'm calling the race for Obama. He's got the "mo" and Hill's got ta go. It's over, O-Man wins, stick a fork in Clinton, she's done...
Peace out, homies. Outtie..
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:03:22 PM PDT
you can pick a subsection of them, say for instance the governors, that have too much power.
There are 31 Governors that are Superdelegates. That means combined, they have one more vote than the entire state of New Hampshire. So those 31 have more pull than 285,000 Democratic voters.
That may be the Democratic way, but it's not very democratic.
F#$< 'em if they can't take a joke. If they can, well, f#$< them too -Dale Slusher
by jaslusher on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:20:02 AM PDT
In youth we learn, in age we understand.
by Jbeaudill on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:14:16 AM PDT
these very same elected Democratic politicians have been amazingly obtuse at discerning which way the wind of public opinion is blowing with regard to so many issues these days, especially Iraq. I have to conclude that there's a finger on the scale somewhere (to mix metaphors), and that finger is related to money. There just isn't any other explanation.
by elmo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:31:02 AM PDT
but the Clintons are well known to be vicious when crossed -- and the senators will still have to deal with Hillary, even if she isn't president.
[bush, fwiw, is far far worse on a personal vendetta level than Clintons -- they shift more towards the 'we don't invite you to parties anymore, because you weren't on our side. no contract for you' -- not jail time]
Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.
by RisingTide on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:41:06 AM PDT
anything else would be a disaster, as wmtriallawyer points out.
I've seen way too much of the voters not getting what they vote for of late to share your certainty, but like I said, I sure hope you're right.
"The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem
Iraq Moratorium
by One Pissed Off Liberal on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:11:42 AM PDT
...if we were talking about the Republican Party, I would probably agree with this whole Super Delegate Hysteria. And while the Dems certainly have a few sell-outs and scoundrels among their ranks, I still believe that the will of the people will be done. That is the audacity of my hope, if you will...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:11:22 AM PDT
with guys like Rahm Emanuel in the mix. Hope you're right though.
by One Pissed Off Liberal on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:54:23 AM PDT
Didn't Mondale become the nominee when the superdelegates went against the pledged delegate vote?
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:12:40 AM PDT
...and we'll talk...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:11:45 AM PDT
Apparently Mondale had the lead in the pledged delegate count, but not enough to secure the nomination. So they did not go against the pledged delegate vote in nominating him.
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:02:42 AM PDT
...in 1988. Whose to say it wouldn't have come out in 1984 if he had been the nominee then?
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:38:52 PM PDT
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:14:00 PM PDT
...getting caught messing around with a woman who was not his wife on a boat called "Monkey Business"...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:06:34 PM PDT
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:39:40 PM PDT
Dan Abrams just today interviewed some twenty-one year old kid who was a superdelegate. It was never made precisely clear how he got the gig, something about being a hardcore activist and putting his name on a list or something.
In any case, the guy claimed that he had just got done having lunch with Chelsea Clinton, and had personally shot the shit with Hillary, Bill and Barack over the phone.
This superdelgate claimed he was undecided, but would ultimately support who his conscience saw fit, despite Abrams asking him to pledge to support the winner of the pledged delegates. The kid would not do so.
A seriously very, very scary interview for anybody who believes in democracy.
You know we live in strange times when hearing something as simple as the truth almost seems shocking.
by redhaze on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:21:07 AM PDT
Can it be verified independently?
by Heart of the Rockies on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:24:56 AM PDT
The "having lunch with Chelsea Clinton" part, you mean? I would assume that the guy wouldn't say it on national TV for MSNBC to air if there was no truth to it. Clinton could deny the claim fairly easily.
The guy was clearly a superdelegate. Does the rest really surprise you, given how important these people may turn out to be?
by redhaze on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:30:23 AM PDT
There's no doubt he's a super delegate? Pretty scary, I agree.
by Heart of the Rockies on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:32:32 AM PDT
The superdelegate lists are open for all to verify. It was pretty clear that MSNBC sought the kid out to do the interview.
by redhaze on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:38:42 AM PDT
If you look up his name, you will find out everything about the guy from ABC, etc. He became a superdelegate at age 17. There is no age limit.
In most states, the superdelegates who are not elected officials are picked by the State Dem. Committee. In PA, for example, each county votes for a few members to the State Dem. Committee. Few voters pay any attention to it. Those State Committee people then appoint some of themselves to be DNC reps or as party chairperson - who become superdelegates. Those superdelegates then also get to pick some of their friends to be additional superdelegates.
JPZenger was a newspaper publisher whose jury trial in the 1730s for seditious libel helped establish the freedom to criticize top government officials.
by JPZenger on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:53:02 AM PDT
Good info. on how the process happens.
Wow, that stuff about selecting your friends is pretty scary stuff.
by redhaze on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 11:50:46 PM PDT
...how he became a Super Delegate. The kid got active in Party politics at the age of 7, riding his bike to local party meetings, and got involved in local campaigns. He went on to become a party student organizer. He put in the hard work of democracy, and as such was recognized by the party. It's not the friggin' Masons for Christ's sake...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:14:57 AM PDT
Does that mean that anybody can be a superdelegate, assuming that they put in years of hard work? Clearly not.
I'm not saying its like the Masons, but a clear explanation of the process was not given in terms of precisely how he was selected and who was doing the selecting and what the precise reason why he specifically was selected.
by redhaze on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:33:48 AM PDT
ANYBODY can be a super delegate, if you put in the time and effort of building the party. It's not rocket science...
by Ken in MN on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:44:10 AM PDT
super delegate years and years ago! This is just a totally dumb aspect to the system and should be eliminated.
by Jbeaudill on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:17:18 AM PDT
You have no idea how people are selected as superdelegates, that is very obvious.
by redhaze on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 11:48:41 PM PDT
... we will remember that there is something happening in America; that we are not as divided as our politics suggests - Barack Obama
by Red State Rebel on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:22:19 AM PDT
Do we really want another YEAR of trying to explain to everyone why the Democratic nominee voted to authorize the Iraq war before they were against it?
Right on, Shadow SD.
by Red State Rebel on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:26:00 AM PDT
Agree. If the superdelegates don't go with the simple majority, there will be hell to pay. If the candidates don't accept simple majority, there will be hell to pay.
I don't understand why we even have superdelegates when we could go with simple majority.
by Jagger on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:50:02 AM PDT
at the convention for all to see, with our Democratic hero's whoring (Can't say "Pimping" anymore, can I?) themselves out to the highest bidder.
We were WARNED this would eventually happen by those who fought against this very undemocratic system in the 70's and early 80's. But those folks are long gone now.
The only GOOD thing that may come of this is the bursting of many "Progressives" fantasy as to who and what the Democratic Party really is...
A MACHINE, that often feeds upon itself....
by IndianaDemocrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:58:44 AM PDT
This election will make it clear whether our vaunted "super" delegates really respect the will of the people and the democratic process, or if they just want to hold on to power at all costs.
"Not just with words, but with deeds." -- Barack Obama
by kath25 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:09:33 AM PDT
If the party doesn't go with the will of the people, they are going to have some 'splaining to do to the rioters in Denver. Maybe I better ask for some vacation time during the convention, in case a good ole fashioned protest march is in order.
Change is a foreign policy that doesn't begin and end with a war that should've never been authorized and never been waged. Obama 6/3/08
by Lipstick Liberal on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:54:13 AM PDT
DemConWatch is a great resource for keeping up on this.
Here is a list of superdelegates who endorsed.
Here is a list of superdelegates who have not endorsed.
These lists suggest that the MI and FL superdels will indeed NOT be counted. Good--MI and FL, don't subvert the party. Superdelegates, don't subvert the people.
by kath25 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:12:58 AM PDT
that all of the superdelegates I know personally in the State of Maryland...DNC members and such that I work with in the party...have NOT endorsed.
Prudent, and I'm glad they haven't. Makes me like 'em even more.
by wmtriallawyer on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:15:17 AM PDT
and that would be DNC members. :)
Which mine is backing whoever will keep the delegation representative of the will of the voters.
Send this Turn Maine Blue blogger to Denver! Click here to donate.
by Eddie in ME on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:10:27 AM PDT
My wife was fourth. I was watching our little one then I went.
I go forth to make new demands on life. Do something that is worthy of it and me. May I dare as I have never done! May I persevere as I have never done!-HDT
by Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:24:29 AM PDT
(so far at least)
It's so good I don't even need to read the diary. The title alone is the perfect, most succinct observation & commentary of this election cycle.
Superdelegates Don't Crash the Gate. They ARE The Gate.
.
I'll observe another thing: Used to be a few years ago that Gate Insiders scorned the netroots and dissed this place. Now they scorn the netroots and send their minions here to offset the progressive backbone of DailyKos, tilting it toward Establishment Land. DailyKos is now a virtual warroom fror rapid response messaging and steering the conversation.
----- _The Flow of FISA: video clips | GroundZero
by rhfactor on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:14:41 AM PDT
wide narrow
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