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He said "Senator Webb will give the Administration any and all of the tools that they need to fight terrorism."
I said, "I'm not one of those Republican loonies that confuses security and civil liberties."
He said, "The Senator is only doing what he thinks is right."
I said, "How could turning the decisions wheter to obey the law, or not, over to the Executive Branch EVER be right."
He hung up, or we were cut off...
Subtlety is the art of saying what you think and getting out of the way before it is understood.
by Granny Doc on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:11:22 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Very depressing... Even a hang up.
John McCain hates children.
by discocarp on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:14:21 AM PDT
Go Barack Obama
by concerned on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:36:40 AM PDT
What has she done for the universe lately?
She said that she was working for the ABC News It was as much of the alphabet as she knew how to use
by Paolo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:43:43 AM PDT
my very bad. Apologies to Senator Feingold.
by Paolo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:45:01 AM PDT
by concerned on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:47:24 AM PDT
of whup ass headed your way!
Russ is The Man! (except for that damn yes vote for Ashcroft - although in hindsight, compared to Gonzales...)
Bottled hot water for dehydrated babies? WTF?!
by JVolvo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:30:44 PM PDT
by concerned on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:46:08 AM PDT
You're thinking of Feinstein, not Feingold. Way different......
"All we are saying....is Give Peace a Chance" -- John & Yoko (-9.0/-7.59)
by musikman on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:47:04 AM PDT
...but she intentionally chose a last name that would make people think she is a much better senator than she is!
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:31:36 PM PDT
would be Obama/Feingold.
Feingold is my favorite politician anywhere ever.
But it'll probably be Obama/Edwards or Obama/Sebelius. I'd be fine with that.
OEF/OIF vet I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.
by jabbausaf on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:09:37 AM PDT
I think Paul Wellstone would be kicking ass right about now if he was still with us. Of course I'm biased because he was my Senator.
Deranged neoconservative militarism isn't the solution to nuclear proliferation; it's a cause. -- Glenn Greenwald
by factbased on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:49:27 AM PDT
perfect either ... he vote for the patriot act.. (Russ was the ONLY one to vote agianst it, if I remember correctly)
But russ has other mminor issues....
by daddy4mak on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:49:07 PM PDT
But do you really think he'd ever want to be a VP again? Secretary of the Interior, sure...some kind of Environment Czar...wonderful, but playing political second to a 46 year old kid? Frankly, if he took the job I'd be embarrassed for him.
As for Edwards, I'd MUCH rather see him as an AG than a VP. He could do so much good in that spot.
On the other hand, VP Hillary sounds just fine to me (though it could backfire in the general, I admit.).
Forward to Yesterday -- Reactionary aesthetics and liberal politics (in that order)
by LABobsterofAnaheim on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:15:31 AM PDT
..or any theoretical Democrat that took the nomination...I think the LAST thing I would want would be to be tied up in the Clinton machine.
That would be a constant power struggle - and yes, they would double team you!!!
I do have lots of respect for the Clintons, but I think trying to have Hillary as VP would be a nightmare for the President.
I just don't think either Clinton likes to be second fiddle. They are just that competitive.
Doing my part to fight Obama Muslim smears
by blue armadillo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:59:21 AM PDT
by LABobsterofAnaheim on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 02:44:15 PM PDT
That was enlightening, but scary. Thanks for making the call.
An American Abroad for Barack Obama
by SneakySnu on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:14:54 AM PDT
I had great hopes for him when he gave the rebuttal to the SOTU last year.
Well, he's still a hell of lot better than Senator Macaca.
"Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?
by litigatormom on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:17:56 AM PDT
George Allen is our standard now? At least Allen stabs in the front.
by discocarp on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:24:11 AM PDT
"The truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing." The Tao Te Ching
by hester on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:59:18 AM PDT
this cycle. We'll see what happens going forward.
by CAL11 voter on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:04:12 AM PDT
I am deeply disappointed (disgusted) with a lot of the Senators to whose campaigns I was encouraged to and did contribute. Never again.
Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse. ~ Lily Tomlin
by vigilant meerkat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:14:21 AM PDT
more careful next round. example, this time I gave buckaroos only to JRE. peace.
by hester on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:18:27 AM PDT
He was the only one who deserved them.
by vigilant meerkat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:54:29 AM PDT
I gave JRE the max - and now of course, I do regret it because I would love to that $$$ for OB... but that's the dice you roll....
Melissa
Dissent is Patriotic
by mwjeepster on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:37:49 AM PDT
I'm personally shocked by Webb's vote - I had no idea he was going that way... I may have been missing something here, but I am really shocked. I guess reality just sucks sometimes... very sad...
by mwjeepster on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:36:30 AM PDT
to change my "sig" line? Shit!
Obama/Webb 2008
by mjd in florida on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:19:31 AM PDT
by mjd in florida on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:57:49 AM PDT
Webb misled us and we fell for it.
We Changed The Course! Now we must hold their feet to the fire.
by hcc in VA on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:17:36 AM PDT
people who have called Mikulski's office have gotten similar responses.
Unlike Webb, however, I think Mikulski is unlikely to run for reelection.
But it's really sad. At the very least.
Civil marriage is a civil right.
by stitchmd on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:28:46 AM PDT
military-industrial-surveillance complex.
Don't be so afraid of dying that you forget to live.
by LionelEHutz on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:54:47 AM PDT
when I moved to Maryland she was rated one of the most liberal members of the Senate, and that's when being a liberal actually meant something.
I don't know if it's because the NSA is in Maryland or what, but Cardin hasn't voted this way. I don't know why she's made this turn.
I just wonder who's going to be designated to run for her seat in 2010.
by stitchmd on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:01:59 AM PDT
Good people go to congress and then are overwhelmed by the culture and they change. They lose the perspective of the people. They become amoral and just bargain for votes in congress. It is insane.
Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:15:49 AM PDT
Me too!!!!!
We must be the change we wish to see in the world. - Gandhi
by left of center on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:57:17 AM PDT
even a day on The Hill - you can see how easily the power players push the common people out of the way really quickly.
Yes, it is a thrill that ANYONE can go and petition at the offices of our elected representative, but some smiling staffer will listen politely and shake hands and that's that. The lobbyists and all their money speak MUCH louder. The whirl of power and money and influence and "insiderism" just helps them all lose perspective. It is a warped, weird bubble of power and ego. Very easy for them to be swayed. They don't worry about health care crises, losing a job, losing the house, paying for college etc. We just become background noise to them.
This vote was particularly depressing. The Dems on the Hill have been almost useless. No leadership there at all.
by blue armadillo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:06:05 PM PDT
gets a good primary challenge when she's up for reelection. I called her office a few weeks ago and couldn't get anyone who knows anything on the phone. The receptionist just sounded annoyed because all of these people were calling and probably keeping her from doing something important....like filing her nails.
by unionsally on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 03:46:50 PM PDT
To the editor:
I note with regret the vote of Senator Barbara Mikulski on a FISA bill amendment, a vote which grants immunity for criminal acts by telecom companies, if those crimes are at the request of the president. Credit to Senator Ben Cardin for voting against that criminal immunity. Sadly, Sen. Mikulski's vote in this matter, for me, brings to an end several decades of voting for Barbara Mikulski. There was a time when I couldn't imagine Mikulski lacking courage on a matter so important to the Americans' basic right to privacy. George W Bush has regretfully succeeded in making Senator Mikulski - as he has with many of our populace in the last seven years - into a coward, fearful of our Bill of Rights. This is Bush's greatest sin in leadership - he has remade many Americans in his own fearful image.
I'm the plowman in the valley - with my face full of mud
by labradog on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:12:17 AM PDT
www.ObamaIsWinning.com
by swampus on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:30:57 AM PDT
by Granny Doc on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:41:45 AM PDT
Demand a "voter verified paper trail" in every election, in every state. Sign Rush Holt's Petition for HR. 811.
by SeaTurtle on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:36:10 AM PDT
To set the rage deep in the mind and not be fooled again. Words are words but let the actions of the click be the meaning.
Looking for Good Reason
by Clzwld on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:57:43 PM PDT
I suppose the more accurate thing to say, is that it is awful that this is the reality, but taking your point, to correctly read the meaning of the actions is to understand reality. And that is critical.
Thanks for your point, valuable insight.
by SeaTurtle on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:51:28 AM PDT
you could have called the white house or fox news if you needed to be told the fucking lie of the day.
rmm.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous
by seabos84 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:38:26 AM PDT
Note to Webb and staff: LAWS are not TOOLS.
Laws exist to define how tools can be used.
Stupid fucking Republican fucking talking fucking point. Goddammit anyway.
"A person is as free as they believe themselves to be off." - Fortune cookie
by The Termite on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:40:55 AM PDT
the way it is used today.
That's darn near a disqualification for being taken seriously in my book. When anyone starts talking about giving anyone else "tools" to do something, and he or she is not a carpenter, a machinist, or in a conversation about ACTUAL tools such as hammers, screwdrivers, or wrenches, my mind shuts off and that person is no longer taken seriously.
It's a stupid language crutch people rely on these days rather than actually defining the terms being used. It's like saying "um" or "I mean" or "you know" all the time in conversation -- not much more than a verbal tic that needs to be eliminated if you plan on being taken seriously.
by Brooke In Seattle on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:44:13 AM PDT
Having been a carpenter and a mechanic I used tools to build, repair, improve, make workable. Bush does none of this. Give a fool a "tool" and he will just screw things up.
If a man claims to speak for god he will assure he is also gods' banker.
by AuntieM on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:54:46 PM PDT
No more Bush soon. No more Republican president soon.
by i prefer soccer on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:06:22 PM PDT
It's turning out to be one of those days, (you know what I'm talking about; we've had so many since we "gained control of Congress"), that cause a combination of massive depression, impotent anger and a touch of profound ennui.
"[Republican] and [rich] people must be protected and persuaded by gentle means, but the rabble must be led by terror." ~Richard (Bonaparte) Cheney
by Starve2Act on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:42:20 AM PDT
on the day the NEW AND IMPROVED Democratically Controlled Congress was sworn in. I was thrilled. The energy was electric there. The weather was sunny and mild (January in DC?? Surely it was a good omen!!!)
I have been so disappointed in how this so-called Democratically controlled Congres has perfomed. What leadership from the Dems? What spine? What courage? What have they done but give the most moronic US President in history EVERYTHING he's whined for!!!!
my hopes were so high. it has been depressing.
by blue armadillo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:18:45 PM PDT
what surprises me is the surprise.
surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat
by wu ming on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:42:27 AM PDT
the closest thing to a Democrat that could have won in Virginia, but he's still not good.
of course you and I are stuck with another one of these awful bushloving DINOs. God I hate Dianne Feinstein.
"Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war" - John Adams
by esquimaux on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:53:38 AM PDT
i still regret voting for her in 2000 over the anti-drug war and generally moderate tom campbell. at the time, i was of the opinion that we needed control of the senate to keep bush in check, and then feinstein went and wrote bush blank check after blank check, beyond what campbell would have done.
it was a serious mistake for us not to have started mobilizing to primary her after the iraq war vote in '02.
by wu ming on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:27:32 PM PDT
He's no Feingold.
by CAL11 voter on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:54:12 AM PDT
i just wish people here played straight about what these candidates were all about when they market them to the netroots. all the bollox about webb being a "progressive" was utterly laughable. if you want people to support a conservative, fine, say so, but be upfront about it.
pity we don't have more feingolds out there in the democratic caucus of the senate. russ plays well enough to conservatives in the north woods of wisconsin, so it's not merely a liberal-conservative thing.
by wu ming on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:30:08 PM PDT
in "more and better Democrats." Because he's not that great a Democrat.
by I on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:14:36 AM PDT
he has the potential to be a better one. Remember, even Al Gore started out as a conservative Democrat In 1988, he was basically in the place where HRC is now for the nomination ... as the conservative candidate.
by TLS66 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:51:28 AM PDT
Even when he was in the Senate as a conservative, Gore was holding hearings on global warming. He got funding for the Internet.
Webb, on the other hand, has done nothing but make one speech shortly after he got elected.
Webb for Senate? Webb for VP? Thanks, but I'd prefer Webb for Disgraced Civilian.
With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied - chains us all, irrevocably.
by Andrew M on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:24:39 PM PDT
of the diary as an update. Everyone should know what kind of colors are underneath that Democrat veneer.
Pretty Bird Woman House has a new house!
by betson08 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:51:38 AM PDT
that Webb wanted the American people to be able to "sue the government" if it's done them wrong.
I asked her what the hell the Constitution was for? isn't that the law protecting the people from the government? isn't that what Webb fought to protect - We the People's rights?
simply amazing - and simply scary as hell.
by bobnbob on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:55:39 AM PDT
by hester on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:00:51 AM PDT
Does this cretin mean to say, "Regardless of the Constitution and our laws, Senator Webb will give the Administration any and all of the tools that they need to fight terrorism."?
Sounds rather fascist to me, and is certainly unacceptable.
..better that money be spent in the U.S. building windmills than squandered in the ME for Bush-McCain to tilt at them. -andydoubtless
by Hornito on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:57:00 AM PDT
I have gotten the distinct impression from writers more informed than me that the surveillance started in Feb 2001.
the terrorism excuse is bullshit.
Save our Constitution!!
Obama, anti-McSame, and 50% off all IMPEACH static cling window decals@ gotta-yell-it.com
by netguyct on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:13:54 AM PDT
Bushco has been lying since the 2000 campaign. About Everything. (Remember compassionate conservatism?) It worked really well. They only need to keep it up for 11 more months and this bill fits in quite nicely with that end. One or two thousands pardons Jan. 18 2009 and Mission Accomplished. (ie, We got ours and America is fu**ed).
by nytcek on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:39:22 AM PDT
Must fight terrorist by all means...
ooh-rah, cough, cough.
Webb's no exception.
Contact Pelosi about impeachment: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov
by Pescadero Bill on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:02:18 AM PDT
We progressives have been fighting for real change, and it seems to work well at times. Then we get complete turnarounds like this from Senators and Reps we thought were representing "us."
After such a brilliant rebuttal to Bush's SOTU last year (or was that two yrs ago already?) my hopes were high for Webb. but, it turns out, he's all for the Way Things Are and Have Been.
I think this vote is an excellent barometer of whom we should support primary challengers to replace.
by netguyct on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:08:37 AM PDT
I'm using that from now on when the subject is something truly Authoritarianesque. Only for insane things like bombing Iran since Republicans are people too ;)
The irony is Michelle's story only happens in America, according to its most fervent patriots. Cindy McCain's happens in any country with concentrated wealth.
by Nulwee on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:18:10 AM PDT
Is Webb's son still in Iraq?
I don't think I have to explain why this might be relevant.
Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.
by Randgrithr on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:37:44 AM PDT
. . . his unit will be sent somewhere deadly because some telcom guy calls up the Pentagon and asks them to do a hit on one of their own soldiers?
I ascribe some evil motivations to people, but OMFG.
What would Gandhi do? "The cause of liberty becomes a mockery if the price to be paid is the wholesale destruction of those who are to enjoy liberty."
by Robespierrette on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:14:07 AM PDT
with dam near anything horrible we could imagine? They've been way past most of our imaginations...oh yeah,they haven't bombed Iran. That that idea (Webb's son as hostage etc.) is even thinkable, even if dismissed, says volumes about an assessment of 'our' govt.
Sen. McMeatwad (R) for pResident.
by KenBee on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:42:42 AM PDT
Pat Tillman.
John Hodgman is my homeboy.
by Rico on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:40:53 PM PDT
You nailed it.
by Randgrithr on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 04:09:41 PM PDT
his son being in Iraq right after Webb was elected? Apparently his son had a near miss, and Webb was tweaking out about it, and Bush decided to rub salt in the wound.
Because that's just the kind of sadistic, piece of shit motherfucker Bush is.
by Randgrithr on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 04:14:27 PM PDT
'The votes are in, and we won.' - Jim Webb, 11/07/2006
by lcork on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:15:39 PM PDT
doesn't this vote prove that Webb is in fact "one of those Republican loonies that confuses security and civil liberties"? except that he technically has a (D) next to his name?
John McCain will ban abortion.
by itsbenj on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:07:36 PM PDT
wide narrow
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