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who no longer had a place in the Republican party. Our party has lots of Repub lite within its ranks. Webb is better than Allen but he is not a real Democrat.
That is something we need to pay attention to in leadership positions. Clark is the same in my book. Good person but not really supporting the people's agenda.
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by pioneer111 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:13:35 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
When I made that point, people criticized me of trying to drum out of the party former Republicans like Kos or random other people who voted for Reagan but are now Democrats.
It's not that at all. I'm sure Kos isn't going to switch back to the Republicans in this life time. If the national GOP cleans up its act a bit, or the Democrats have a downswing, I worry Webb will go back to their party.
by brittain33 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:23:55 AM PDT
Well that explains a lot. And makes sense, given his military background.
Women's History Month: The 19th Amendment
by belly on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:38:16 AM PDT
And makes sense, given his military background.
those with a military background tend to be Democrats. In case you haven't noticed the GOP is prowar, not proservice.
it tastes like burning...
by eastvan on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:26:09 PM PDT
...the military is a lot like any large corporation. Management tends to be Republican, workers tend to be Democrats.
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:24:21 PM PDT
Clark, have turned out to birds of an entirely different feather.
by eastvan on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:04:25 PM PDT
In the three previous polls, nearly 60 percent of the respondents identified themselves as Republicans, which is about double the population as a whole. But in this year’s poll (2006), only 46 percent of the military respondents said they were Republicans. However, there was not a big gain in those identifying themselves as Democrats — a figure that consistently hovers around 16 percent. The big gain came among people who said they were independents.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
by deathsinger on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:10:23 PM PDT
(Sgt, USArmy, RVN, '68) and have never voted rethug in my life. And barring a major realignment of the planets never will. In fact I am always a bit suspicious about people who have voted rethug in the past 40 years, because the rethug agenda has been clear since at least 1966. Namely, destroy the middle class, increase benefits to the wealthy, destroy national security and restore the feudal rights of the oligarchs! And they have been amazingly successful at it, largely because so many of us colluded with/voted for them.
"The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau
by shigeru on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:48:11 PM PDT
I turned 18 in June of 2000. Voted for Bush.
I've since changed. The Republican Party claims to be for national security, it claims to be for civil liberties, and it claims to be for fiscal responsibility. These were all lies. In becoming a Democrat, I have also come to realize the importance and value of taxes, and that they are necessary, and the important thing is to ensure that they are spent well.
Somebody who wastes money and doesn't raise taxes is worse to me then somebody who spends money wisely and raises taxes to use it wisely. And that is when I finished the trip to liberal :)
Additionally, the Republican Party claims to be the pro-military party. They're pro-military in the sense that a kid is pro-toy. They like having the military to play with and to use as a tool to act out their own fantasies. Some in the military realize this. I did.
OEF/OIF vet I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.
by jabbausaf on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:07:56 AM PDT
And as another Republican once said:
"Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society" Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society"
Oliver Wendell Holmes
"If impeachment is off the table, so is democracy." -teacherken
by offgrid on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:09:02 PM PDT
They're pro-military in the sense that a kid is pro-toy. They like having the military to play with and to use as a tool to act out their own fantasies.
I will be cribbing this for future "discussions." Thanks much.
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. -- Thos. Jefferson
by HooverWhoWontSuck on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:41:04 PM PDT
Democrats support the troops. Republicans support the war.
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:25:53 PM PDT
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace -6.63, -6.97
by amRadioHed on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:00:21 PM PDT
even when the Republicans were universally perceived to be in favor of the military. That just means they favor defense contractors, not troops. Bush and Cheney are chickenhawks, if I have the term right. Max Cleland, Jim Webb, and John Murtha are in favor of the troops.
by i prefer soccer on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:02:23 PM PDT
"Our troops are being asked to fight for their government-- NOT for their nation!"
Aloha .. .. ..
dolphin777
by dolphin777 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 04:42:36 PM PDT
They have successfully infiltrated the Democratic Party and taken it completely over. If not through open primaries, then by switching parties. How do you think we got so corporate?
...once you're willing to say whatever it takes to win, you lose. ~~Dean
by dkmich on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:44:18 PM PDT
I don't think Republicans infiltrated the Democratic Party and took it over. I think the corporations and their lobbyists infiltrated the wallets of Democrats and turned them into DINOs.
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:28:41 PM PDT
and your party got invaded and captured by loonies, wouldn't you leave? Just because they leave doesn't mean that they don't bring their corporate/Republican poltics with them.
by dkmich on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:38:48 PM PDT
your party got invaded and captured by loonies, wouldn't you leave?
Have you left the Democratic Party because it's been invaded and captured by corporatists?
Just because they leave doesn't mean that they don't bring their corporate/Republican poltics with them.
Just because they leave the Republican Party doesn't mean they have to join the Democratic Party. The steady growth in the number of unaffiliated voters over the past decades represents mostly disgruntled ex-party affiliated voters who are fed up with their own party but don't like the other one, either.
I am more inclined to think that those who chose to join the Democratic Party did so because, like jabbausaf, their experience with the Republican Party led them to better appreciate and more fully embrace the tenets of the Democratic Party.
To be clear, I'm talking about rank-and-file voters. If you are talking about a seeker of political office, then yes, because they usually do have to join the other party if they want to continue to serve in an elected office. But party-switching is such a rarity among this crowd as to be unlikely to have much influence on the overall character of either party.
by Free Spirit on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:11:02 PM PDT
Unfortunately my body and voting hand has no place else to go. Even a reformed Republican is more right than the rightest of the left.
by dkmich on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:50:01 PM PDT
by dolphin777 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 03:44:48 PM PDT
progressive on many issues, but he's definitely a Democrat.
Believe me, I'm not happy about this vote at all, but not voting for it certainly doesn't drum one out of the party.
He's not a purist on every one of the issues I would like him to be, but then again, who is?
I really take exception with your characterization of Senator Webb as
...not a real Democrat...a good person but not really supporting the people's agenda.
Obama 2008
by cato on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:31:59 AM PDT
This isn't his first time, you know.
by dkmich on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:45:22 PM PDT
read through the most egregious votes we've suffered through in this "new and improved" '06 Congress - Webb's name is on the wrong side nearly every time. the silliness over embracing this guy as some kind of 'gate-crasher' or 'people powered candidate' is just that, silliness. Webb went from being a Republican to being a center-right corporate Dem immediately overnight. smooth transition, it seems.
matters like this are part of why civilian control over the government is so important - people too familiar with the military become accustomed to routine invasions of privacy and are willing to accept this writ large in the country because they have to live with it themselves.
John McCain will ban abortion.
by itsbenj on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:59:37 PM PDT
Telecom corridor in VA with every major Telco/ISP having a huge data or operations center.
Could it be pressure from ordinary and extra-ordinary constituents?
See you at the debates, bitches!
by Bronxist on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:03:13 AM PDT
"super constituents?"
by Heart of the Rockies on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:25:16 AM PDT
by shigeru on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:51:52 AM PDT
the warrantless wire tapping of Americans has yielded some embarrassing (criminal?) info about all of them that Cheney has in his arsenal? How much money would the telecoms have to offer someone in the Rockerfeller family to have him support lawlessness and the destruction of the constitution?
by Aint Supposed to Die a Natural Death on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:59:45 AM PDT
to a whole new level, doesn't it?
The History Commons needs your participation.
by Black Max on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:09:55 PM PDT
But then Dodd would not be out there opposing immunity. The margins would be 99 - 1 with Feingold as the sole holdout -- no skeletons in his closet ;)
by Bronxist on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:15:34 PM PDT
Because the fact is Real Democrats don't agree on everything, or ostracize people they have a lot in common with over any one or two position differences. It's what sets us apart and the one facet of this party I'm most proud of. It makes it trickier for us to govern, but it means more thought necessarily goes into the decisions we make.
---- now they sit and rattle their bones and think of their bloodstone days...
by TooFolkGR on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:22:01 PM PDT
and if we are willing to own him as a Senator, we should not disqualify him for leadership positions.
I think Jim Webb is 100% the best possible Veep candidate for Obama. I think it is wrong for you to be willing to accept the "D" by his name for Senate purposes, but then to send him to the back of the bus as some kind of 3/5 of a Democratic party member when it comes to leadership positions.
by Anaxamander on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:36:03 PM PDT
right on
At least the war on the middle class is going well
by worried dem on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:09:16 PM PDT
Even though Webb disappointed today, I don't want to lose that Senate seat to a Republican. Why risk a Senate seat? Why can't Obama find a running mate who is currently occupying a safe seat? I really don't get the rationale on this, especially since it's imperative we capture and hold on to as many Senate seats as possible if we want anything progressive passing.
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by sarahlane on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 02:26:13 PM PDT
by Anaxamander on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 05:42:07 PM PDT
Kaine appoints whoever...which never goes over well with voters...special election...then what? I want to hold on to that seat. Period.
by sarahlane on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:23:35 PM PDT
So he could appoint a placeholder person who won't run... that always goes over well, and then run himself. He's very popular there.
by Anaxamander on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:46:21 AM PDT
He's a fine senator for VA, but not an especially great Dem overall. We don't need to disqualify him for anything, but neither do we need to put him undeservedly on a pedestal. People around here are ballistic in going after Hillary, and yet Webb is far to her right on just about every issue.
If he were running in the Presidential campaign people would be hating him...and yet he's a good VP pick? I don't think so.
Don't like XOM and OPEC? What have YOU done to reduce your oil consumption? Hot air does NOT constitute a renewable resource!
by Asak on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 04:09:35 PM PDT
Sometime between 1961 and 1980 a lot of republicans got left without a party. It took another 20 years for most of them to figure that out. Webb and Wes Clark are prime examples of that. Actually, in many ways Hillary is one of them as well. One could make the argument (not that I am, at least here) that Obama fits that mold as well.
My concern is that now that they've all joined MY party they're taking it farther and farther right. I want to be a part of the party of FDR and the New Deal, although at this point, TR's Square Deal sounds pretty damn liberal.
I am an Edwards Democrat.
by ThirstyGator on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:11:12 PM PDT
Go Barack Obama
by concerned on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 08:47:29 PM PDT
target about Webb being moderate republican, and yes there are quite a few of these. Forty years ago these were actually your main stream republicans. People like the Clinton's, Bayh, Nelson, Pryor these would have been classified as moderate republicans forty years ago. Today there are very few real democrats.
by Smada AD on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:44:48 PM PDT
wide narrow
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