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not for me or for Obama, but for the future.
Head to Heading Left, BlogTalkRadio's progressive radio site!
by thereisnospoon on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:09:57 PM PDT
Chek above... :D
by David Boyle on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:11:22 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
thanks.
by thereisnospoon on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:14:02 PM PDT
I think that Obama is a fine man and will make a very good pres if he wins, but I think you are mistaken about who will accomplish more in terms of real and positive changes, sooner.
There is a spoon ... stirring a pot of social, economic, climate and other environmental collateral damages - resulting from runaway corporate power. Edwards appears more prepared to take that on, and time is truly of the essence.
Either way though, we would have a very good person as a nominee.
open-source: Environmental Americanandnetrootsdaily.com
by NetRootsDaily on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:51:36 PM PDT
and say to TINSpoon that if Obama was as direct in his message as you are, he's have a lot more supporters. I just can't get around his verbose speechifying....
The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain
by Persiflage on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 04:52:55 PM PDT
I wish I didn't have to choose between them. Or Dodd.
by thereisnospoon on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 06:27:02 PM PDT
Actually, the JFK comparison is quite apt. JFK actually campaigned against Nixon by attacking him from the right and claiming to do a better job of fighting the communists. The communists were his era's version of the terrorists - the big scary boogie man that justifies an obscene military budget. The whole package of fear and corporate welfare for the military industrial complex and a national security state is the antithesis of progressivism. JFK played right along with it, and Obama looks like he'll follow the same game plan. Maybe if he's assasinated in office, he will be a beloved national figure 40 years from now. If not, he will be attacked by the right just like Clinton was. Just like Clinton, he will clean up the fiscal mess left behind by a Republican administration, making it possible for Republicans to have another round of looting the treasury in 2016 while Democrats take the blame for the needed belt-tightening, and progressivism will be no better off. I hope that all of this is wrong, but I am suffering from the Audacity of Cynicism.
Chomsky Fever! John McCain sucks.
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:53:57 PM PDT
because he's putting the focus on the people, not the politicians. He's challenging our generation to step up. The President alone doesn't have the power to change our country, but he does have the power to inspire a nation-wide grassroots movement that demands change at all levels of government.
by Texas Populist on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:03:20 PM PDT
Obama is also similar to JFK in ways that undermine progressivism. I wish JFK had talked about the danger of the military-industrial complex like Eisenhower had. I wish he would have questioned the Cold War arms race instead of embracing it's right-wing logic as a campaign tactic. Similarly, I wish Obama would speak plainly about the dangers to our democracy from corporate power like Edwards does. I wish he would question not only the Bush tactics in the "War on Terror" but the underlying fallacy of the whole concept like Edwards has.
Yeah, Obama is a lot like JFK - in both good ways and bad.
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:21:12 PM PDT
His legislative agenda went nowhere; he weaseled and waffled (publicly) on civil rights; he enabled arrogant warmongers ('teh best and teh brightest'); and he stumbled very openly, and badly, in foreign affairs (esp. first summit meeting with Kruschev).
His term in office was also too short to realistically expect any big movement. As we've seen more recently, it's really an 8-year job. Otherwise, the president is just a short-term placeholder.
All that said, I believe JFK was one of the most 'presidential' of presidents. He understood the position, and took it seriously. He attracted very bright and motivated people, challenged them to think out loud and argue with each other in front of him, then took their contributions into consideration as he synthesized each position into one that was his own.
He learned from each encounter and situation, and grew as a person and president on the basis of those experience - thus migrating from the belligerent war hawk/cold warrior of his early days through to the advocate for nuclear control and disarmament of his final months.
So, too with civil rights, though he needed stark shocks (Cuban Missile Crisis, 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham) to finally see the right way in each situation.
Finally, we was way fucking smart, and really fucking interesting.
Perhaps JFK's most important contribution to our collective lives was to rally us with a feeling of the possible, to prompt us to reach farther and try harder because the issues deserved such treatment. And that contribution has lasted longer than he did.
In the end, I'm not sold on Obama, because I see no "there" there. I'll vote for him if he's the choice, but that opportunity is a long time off, if it ever even comes.
It is, in some ways, a happy dilemma to have the choices that we do. I think any of the dems running (save Gravel and Kucinich) could actually do the job far better, and in a way that more closely aligns with what's important to me, than the Cheney admin or any of the pathetic repubs, or the village elders' Bloomberg dream ticket.
But I'm afraid that the clock's ticking really loud.
Iraq War Grief Daily Witness
by RubDMC on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:11:15 PM PDT
You've joined a select group of visionaries, not that it matters.
Turn the page!
by kidneystones on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:32:31 PM PDT
You sincerely believe that an individual selected as Editor of the Harvard Law Review has no there, there?? Is that why the top firms in the nation seek that individual out, year after year and basically allow them to write their own tickets? Is it possible that these firms do this without any past success ratio? Honestly.
The problems of the world are far too complex to have John McCain as President.
by Blogvirgin on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 05:56:44 PM PDT
by RubDMC on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 08:24:18 PM PDT
I wish he would question not only the Bush tactics in the "War on Terror" but the underlying fallacy of the whole concept like Edwards has.
Your wish has already come true
McCain wants to send your job overseas.
by GoogleBonhoeffer on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 06:59:29 PM PDT
Like the slogan, too.
"We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." Barack Obama
by keeplaughing on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:14:40 PM PDT
the military and the CIA as president and acted to fire powerful people when they overstepped the Constitution. He may well have been murdered because he did that. Kennedy did not put the first advisors into Vietnam. Eisenhower did that. And shortly before he died, Kennedy had decided to begin withdrawing troops from Vietnam. That, too, could have been a factor in his assassination.
There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio
by Boston Boomer on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 09:43:44 AM PDT
I think the comparison to Reagan is more apt, and from what I've heard, Obama talks a lot about Reagan himself.
In the first place, JFK was far more experienced in the ways of the world. He was a hero during WWII in the Pacific. He had traveled widely and studied in England. He had spent a much longer time in the Senate than Obama has. Kennedy was a much more passionate and eloquent speaker than Obama and he was a fierce Democratic partisan, who would never have made the kind of misteps that Obama has in dealing with important Democratic groups and issues.
by Boston Boomer on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 09:39:44 AM PDT
the word assassination. It was a different time when JFK was running. Obama is not playing to the right and he does not trade on fear like some of the others. Whether it is fear of the terrorists or the boogieman. I want a candidate who has crossover appeal and I will match my liberal credentials against anyones. But I am sick and tired of the division. It is not something I want for my children or grandchildren. I want change, real change and he is the change candidate. Some of you just like the fight. I suggest you get yourselves some boxing gloves and enter the ring. The rest of us want meaningful progress and Obama is the ONE to bring it about.
by ronnied on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:11:36 PM PDT
you are absolutely disgusting even mentioning the word assassination
huh? would at the very least suggest substituting 'you are' with 'it is'.
John McCain is anti-choice
by stevej on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:21:36 PM PDT
calls unions "special interests" and talks about "trial lawyers" like it's a bad thing? How is that not playing to the right?
Incendiado para arriba, listo para irme.
by gobacktotexas on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:21:37 PM PDT
The trial lawyer thing again?
By definition the union's 527 is a special interest group, but that's beside the point.
What exactly did Obama say bad about trial lawyers, other than he chose not to be one?
"They're trying to fool you. They're trying to scare you. And they're not telling you the truth." Obama '08
by bawbie on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:03:11 PM PDT
He said he didn't want to be a 'trial attorney' because he knew it would resonate with the right wing. Barack Obama voted for the "Class Action Fairness Act" or "CAFA." He supports "tort reform" a long-standing wingnut agenda.
CAFA undermines environmental protections, small businesses and middle class consumers. It protects corporations who pollute and keeps Americans from filing lawsuits against them.
All members of the Democratic coalition opposed it. Unions, civil rights and consumer groups, and public employees opposed it.
CAFA, by contrast, was supported by Bush, Lott, McCain, Santorum, George Allen, Bill Frist, Joe Lieberman, Conrad Burns, Grover Norquist, Mel Martinez, the credit card industry, the oil companies, and the big insurance companies. Barack Obama took their side, not ours.
Opposing CAFA in the Senate was the core of the Democratic Caucus, including Feingold, Kennedy, Kerry, Reid, Durban, Leahy, Boxer, Wyden, Harkin, Clinton, Biden, Sarbanes, Corzine, Stabenow, Dorgan, Murray, and Lautenberg.
Opposing CAFA from outside of the Senate were Bill Clinton and John Edwards. President Clinton vetoed similar legislation in 1995. ... ..
Via Salon.com: The Erin Brockoviches of America may have a much tougher time going after polluters now that the Class Action Fairness Act is speeding through Congress toward President Bush's desk. The bill, a long-standing priority of the Bush administration and its corporate contributors, passed in the Senate on Thursday and is expected to sail through the House next week. It will move most major class-action lawsuits from state courts to federal courts, purportedly in an attempt to bring about order and fairness in America's judicial system. Proponents of the bill claim that the current system allows plaintiffs' attorneys to seek out local courts with agreeable track records on rulings and negotiate settlement awards for victims that are inconsistent from state to state. ... .. Erin Brockovich, drop dead
Via Salon.com:
The Erin Brockoviches of America may have a much tougher time going after polluters now that the Class Action Fairness Act is speeding through Congress toward President Bush's desk.
The bill, a long-standing priority of the Bush administration and its corporate contributors, passed in the Senate on Thursday and is expected to sail through the House next week. It will move most major class-action lawsuits from state courts to federal courts, purportedly in an attempt to bring about order and fairness in America's judicial system. Proponents of the bill claim that the current system allows plaintiffs' attorneys to seek out local courts with agreeable track records on rulings and negotiate settlement awards for victims that are inconsistent from state to state. ... ..
Erin Brockovich, drop dead
http://dir.salon.com/...
If you love Joe Lieberman, you'll love Obama: http://www.counterpunch.org:80/...
Finally, one of the best arguments I've read about Obama:
http://www.mydd.com/...
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
by SignalSuzie on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 04:35:59 PM PDT
An interest group is an organization of citizens who want to influence politics and policy, without seeking election themselves. Any union 527 falls into that category, along with Focus on the Family, Amnesty International, ACLU, or whatever other group you can think of. That's the problem with blanket statements like "special interests out of Washington" is that unless you radically redefine what it means to be a special interest, you target a lot of progressive causes.
It looks like special interest is going to get the same sort of redefinition that judicial activism got a few years ago, defining only the groups you disagree with as special interests.
by baskil on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:52:23 PM PDT
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory is that the term was coined and hyped by conservatives in order to demonize liberal advocacy groups. As if labor, aka people who work, i.e. 99% of the population is somehow a "special" interest. The implied message is that these "special" interests are somehow different from ordinary flag-waving Americans. They're a bunch of abortion-loving enviro-terrorist PETA freaks. Obama, by even using the term, especially in relation to labor, is really advancing a right-wing frame.
Progressives really need to come up with a different term for the mega-corporations and their lobbyists and astro-turf groups that makes clear the difference between working class folks fighting for causes that benefit all of us, and the ultra-wealthy, ultra-powerful few whose interests are at odds with most of Americans.
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:23:06 PM PDT
by baskil on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:45:08 PM PDT
My point is that JFK's martyrdom at a young age has a lot to do with his iconic status today.
Let's face it. There are a lot of racist nuts out there. Don't think that Michelle Obama hasn't thought about it. Perhaps it was in poor taste to even mention it, but I think that the only way any Democratic president will survive the modern Consevative Propaganda Machine as a universally beloved figure would be for a charismatic young leader to be martyred. Gruesome to talk about? Yes. But my real point is that there is a conservative media infrastructure with vast resources that will simply not allow a Democrat to unite the country. The most we can hope for is a functioning majority with the balls to fight and a minority that will be riled up with Obama-hatred (or Hillary-hatred or Edwards-hatred.)
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:36:27 PM PDT
I think it's reasonable to assume the possibility that ANY Democrat winning the election this year will be in danger of some wingnut assassinating them. That's obviously not to say that any of us are hoping it happens, or that it would be anything more than subhuman of anybody to try it.
But it's a valid point to raise, and IMHO you're right to raise it. Pretending that those who consider opposition to the GOP and to the Bush administration to be tantamount to treason, and who advocate the torture and murder of people they consider to be enemies of the state couldn't possibly respond violently to the prospect of a Democratic win in November doesn't necessarily make it so.
We oughtn't dwell on it, of course, but neither is it "disgusting" to point out the possibility.
And again, I don't think it's just a racial thing (though there will obviously be that ilk out there making noise if Obama is nominated.) I think it's something ALL potential Democratic candidates have probably wondered about for themselves.
Sociopathy is, unfortunately, a definite component of a lot of the more violent shit that the wingnuts support. After all this time, I'd think we'd all understand that this is what we're up against, to a certain extent.
And I dearly hope nothing of the sort actually comes to pass. For ANY of the candidates.
by Rumi68 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:07:21 PM PDT
and he made a big thing out of a Missile gap that was actually way in our favor not the Soviets.
by Anne Elk on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:15:30 PM PDT
... this?
Maybe if he's assasinated in office, he will be a beloved national figure 40 years from now.
Seriously?
What the fuck has gone wrong with this place?
by Bob Johnson on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:44:55 PM PDT
was that JFK's legacy is inflated because he was martyred when he was young and attractive. There is a Conservative Noise Machine that will convince at least a sizeable minority of the population to despise any Democratic president as much as they hate the Clintons. I apologize to anyone who is offended by that one line from a comment that said a bunch more stuff. I can see how it can be viewed as callous and in poor taste. I regret writing it, because it brings up the possibility of something which would be truly horrific. But I'm sure you can tell the difference between mentioning the possibility of something and condoning or implying that it would not be a horrible tragedy. I assumed that would be clear to anyone who would have read it. In retrospect, I can see how even discussing such a thing in terms of political effects is kind of fucked up.
In defense of anyone who recommended the comment, I frequently have to decide whether to recommend a comment that I mostly agree with or find enlightening when one line really bugs me. I think "What the fuck has gone wrong with this place?" is a bit hyperbolic. Nonetheless, I apologize.
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:08:39 PM PDT
succeeding. They just can't stand it. He should have known his place.
I honestly believe that's what it is, because there is no rational explanation for this blind hatred of an inspiring, successful, effective and strong candidate. All of the evidence shows Obama gets it done better than HIllary and certainly better than Edwards.
But evidence and rational agruments are a waste of time and energy in here. People here are determined to hate him because he is successful, and they never gave him their permission to be successful.
by keeplaughing on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:22:31 PM PDT
by attacking him from the right.
Yes, he did that. And he made claims about Eisenhower-Nixon allowing a "missile gap" between the U.S and U.S.S.R. to occur that weren't true.
The public controversy was actually only the tip of the iceberg, for the real sparks flew within the American intelligence community, particularly between the US Air Force and the Central Intelligence Agency. Air Force analysts claimed that there could be hundreds of Soviet ICBMs, whereas CIA analysts argued that there were no more than a dozen. We now know that there were only four. http://www.thespacereview.com/...
The public controversy was actually only the tip of the iceberg, for the real sparks flew within the American intelligence community, particularly between the US Air Force and the Central Intelligence Agency. Air Force analysts claimed that there could be hundreds of Soviet ICBMs, whereas CIA analysts argued that there were no more than a dozen.
We now know that there were only four.
http://www.thespacereview.com/...
The problem I have with "Dems attacking Republicans from the right", is that all that does is drive them (the Repubs) even farther to the right, and I find that to be a bad outcome.
by William Domingo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:43:17 PM PDT
call him a fucking socialist. The window has moved. The center is already over here with us.
I just hope Obama doesn't lose the hand he extends across the aisle in the spirit of bipartisanship.
Ah, but does the Buddha have cat nature?--dallasdave ca. 2008
by dallasdave on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:52:46 PM PDT
Uh-huh. We saw how well bipartisanship appeasement worked for the Clintons when they were in the White House. All they got in return for giving the Republicans everything the Republicans wanted was impeachment.
by William Domingo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 05:32:31 PM PDT
JFK was finally prodded into taking a courageous stance on civil rights, but his foreign policy was typical emperialism. There is a river of blood on his hands in Latin America for the benefit of Big Business. Yes, Obama has personal charisma, as did JFK and Bill Clinton. I really don't think placing our hopes on a cult of personality is a good long term strategy for the progressive movement, especially because it is intrinsically elitist and unprogressive to begin with.
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:37:44 PM PDT
no, JFK was no saint--especially on foreign policy.
But it's going to take some serious executive leadership to pull America through what's coming. Bickering and sniping our way through the next 8 years is a recipe for disaster.
If Edwards can get massive approval ratings, ram progressive changes through congress and succeed in calling for sacrifices from the American people, I'm all for it. I just don't see that happening as well as with Obama.
by thereisnospoon on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:40:52 PM PDT
Well-reasoned, thoughtful, and I agree that most folks seem to mistake Barack's kindness for weakness, when I, like u, believe there is steel behind the velvet glove.
He has offered glimpses of this, Kennedyesque ones, even, such as when he zapped Hillary by his rejoinder, "Yes, I'll look forward to your advice, too, Hillary!", then flashed that big grin.
Another critical area where I believe he has the opportunity to far outdistance JFK is in Civil, Voting, and Human Rights. His record and past statements in these bedrock areas are more than promising, and will both open up our democracy and boost our Democracy. While JFK provided soaring rhetoric (such as his 'definition' of what it means to be a Liberal--I never tire of that!), he left real accomplishment in the area of Civil Rights to LBJ, who did all of the heavy lifting.
Welcome to the club, thereisnospoon, and here's hoping we can all move forward together!!!
by serrano on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:53:01 PM PDT
Edwards rhetoric is much closer to FDR's. I think it's clear that FDR moved the progressive ball much further down the field than JFK.
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:58:44 PM PDT
Edwards' rhetoric is much closer to RFK.
by gobacktotexas on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:23:16 PM PDT
Yes, closer to RFK than to JFK. Also, closer to FDR than to JFK.
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:42:32 PM PDT
ran on hope and optimism. "Happy days are here again."
May your entire existence be one sensuous, frolic-filled experience lived in defiance of care.
by Fonsia on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:30:56 PM PDT
Hope and optimism are not incompatible with the recognition that a hard fight will be required. FDR understood this as much as Edwards does:
In his great Madison Square Garden speech, he declared of the forces of "organized money": "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred."
by miasmo on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:07:20 PM PDT
And I hope and pray for a similar outspokenness and commitment from our presidential candidate. So far, that's indeed been Edwards.
[-8.13/-8.67]
by chgriffen on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:23:35 PM PDT
I love that quote. I feel, as does Michael Moore, that the Corporations will eat Obama for breakfast. Obama has never worked on Wall Street or in Big Biz...he has no one idea what these guys are capable of..NONE.
He's not up to the task. Edwards has fought these Greed Mongers and won. We need another FDR...and Edwards is the one who understands how to fight them....and more important, how to win.
Obama voted for 'torte reform.' That was a kick in the gut to the working person who gets mangled by the Corporation.
by slade7 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 04:26:14 PM PDT
by the same corporations that he thinks will eat Obama for breakfast. Obama grills US Generals, confronts Detroit and lectures Wall Street while Michael Moore fiddles with his camcorder.
by GoogleBonhoeffer on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 07:08:19 PM PDT
with that camcorder though.
People make a huge mistake in thinking that all of our leaders should be the same. Moore is a propagandist of the highest order, but he's on OUR side, and that's good.
But he's not the guy who has to get it done, he's the guy watching from the sidelines. He's calling the game, in a sense.
The guy who gets it done has to have a completely different set of skills. Those skills are demonstrated by a record of good judgment, hard work for the right causes, and success in moving our agenda forward legislatively. That's Obama.
Michael Moore needs to grow up a little bit. From the first legislative success to finish, it took Canada over ten years to get health care for everyone, and lots of compromises were made. The system will be continuously tweaked and adjusted as the country grows and changes. Obama knows the steps.
by keeplaughing on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:31:36 PM PDT
I see it with Edwards... because Edwards is naming the problem: The massive rigging of the game in favor of corporate wealth.
Name it and claim it, as they say in Al-Anon.
I don't see that with Obama, and in fact he seems to be running away from progressives, rather than for them.
That's no way to win a progressive mandate!
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
by lambertstrether on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:31:58 PM PDT
I really wish that folks would stop repeating the hype about Bill Richardson. I'm not sure what your criteria is for greatness in a governor.
Here are a few of his moves which were not so great in my book.
First of all - He blocked single-payer. He put together a body to study various options for a state health plan. The advise came back that the single-payer option was the most cost effective. Richardson blocked that plan & said he would not allow a plan that did not include a role for private, for profit insurers.
Second - as governor, he blocked the Kerry v Bush recount.
Third - he gave tax cuts to the wealthiest New Mexicans thus broadening the gap between rich & poor.
Forth - He moved up the primary date, but limited polling places to one or two per county. Since the "caucus" is in February, it limits accessibility to the polls, especially in rural areas and for the poor. In effect he limited voting access to wealthy urban dwellers in Albuquerque, Rio Ranch, Las Cruces and Santa Fe, where voters are more likely to agree with his pro-corporate policies.
there's so much more - but that's a start. ```` peace
U.S. Mayors to Congress: "Pass H.R. 676 NOW"
by peace voter on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:31:27 PM PDT
How could I leave that one out?
In August, Louisiana Energy Services began construction on its uranium enrichment plant, which will use thousands of centrifuges to separate uranium 238 isotopes from uranium 235 isotopes. The uranium 235 can then be converted into fuel for nuclear power plants. According to Don Hancock, director of the nuclear waste safety program at the Southwest Research and Information Center, Richardson could have killed the project. Two other states had succeeded in rejecting the facility. Instead, Hancock says, the governor cut a deal with the company. — Laura Paskus Is Bill Richardson Radioactive? The Progressive, December 2007 Issue
In August, Louisiana Energy Services began construction on its uranium enrichment plant, which will use thousands of centrifuges to separate uranium 238 isotopes from uranium 235 isotopes. The uranium 235 can then be converted into fuel for nuclear power plants.
According to Don Hancock, director of the nuclear waste safety program at the Southwest Research and Information Center, Richardson could have killed the project. Two other states had succeeded in rejecting the facility. Instead, Hancock says, the governor cut a deal with the company.
— Laura Paskus Is Bill Richardson Radioactive? The Progressive, December 2007 Issue
The deal that Richardson cut with Louisiana Energy Services puts the lie to his boasts about being an environmentalist.
I have just discovered from the Department of Energy’s data, that the enrichment of uranium produces 93% per year of the C.F.C. gas in this country, which is currently banned under the Montreal Protocol because it produces destruction of the ozone layer. — Dr. Helen Caldicott Democracy Now! September 24, 2004
I have just discovered from the Department of Energy’s data, that the enrichment of uranium produces 93% per year of the C.F.C. gas in this country, which is currently banned under the Montreal Protocol because it produces destruction of the ozone layer.
— Dr. Helen Caldicott Democracy Now! September 24, 2004
```` peace
by peace voter on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:43:03 PM PDT
but there's nothing mutually exclusive about being pro-nuclear and pro-environment. Any cursory research beyond the anti-nuclear websites would bear that out.
Even the guy who helped found Greenpeace agrees
In the early 1970s when I helped found Greenpeace, I believed that nuclear energy was synonymous with nuclear holocaust, as did most of my compatriots. That's the conviction that inspired Greenpeace's first voyage up the spectacular rocky northwest coast to protest the testing of U.S. hydrogen bombs in Alaska's Aleutian Islands. Thirty years on, my views have changed, and the rest of the environmental movement needs to update its views, too, because nuclear energy may just be the energy source that can save our planet from another possible disaster: catastrophic climate change.
by baskil on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:01:45 PM PDT
specific issues like health care, sos that may not be the criteria the diarist was looking at in Richardson.
The message of this diary seems to be that Obama is going to very quickly cause change to happen in the system though his charismatic personality. It's a very risky strategy, in my opinion.
First Obama's charisma doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny. I thought he was very charming and inspiring at first, but after the many missteps of the past couple of months, I find him somewhat irritating.
The one thing about Obama's personality that I think will be a problem for him (and us) if he becomes President is his stubborness and apparent unwillingness to recognize or apologize for his own errors. It's a characteristic that he shares with the current President, unfortunately.
I'm sure Obama is very different from Bush in almost every other way, but this kind of inflexibility and unwillingness to listen is not a good quality in a leader.
by Boston Boomer on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 05:21:50 PM PDT
Welcome aboard.Many of the same reasons I support Obama. BTW I always enjoyed reading your diaries.
Because I won't trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:32:18 PM PDT
I really believe that the root of the current problems in America starts and ends with the endless divide seperating people from the solutions available in academic circles etc.
Having someone who can work with everyone again will truly be a new day in America.
Barack won't just be a good candidate
He won't just be a good Leader
He could be the Greatest President the US has seen since FDR, if he lives up to his potential, gets cooperation and solves the crisis America is currently in.
He has the highest upside potential of any candidate running!
by kubla000 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:34:48 PM PDT
with Obama, though I still hold out hope for Edwards.
Either or, I'd like to see the two of them on the ticket together, no matter which is on top.
Hope ya had a great holiday! :)
"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix."
-Christina Baldwin
by Erevann on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:39:03 PM PDT
i hope they don't have too much animosity to do it.
by thereisnospoon on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 06:28:57 PM PDT
this is one were you have completely lost me. I just can't see how anyone looking for real change would even consider Obama, unless the change you are looking for is just more of the same old "go along to get get along, don't rock the boat politics" that seems to be the norm of the all democratic candidates except for John Edwards.
Don't sell out John! Damn, too late, lost another to the dark side!
by ichibon on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:41:39 PM PDT
As I've said elsewhere on this thread, if you buy into Andrew Sullivan's vacuous oomer theory, as thereisnopoon seems to have done, you've cut yourself off from any basic understanding of what's happening to the country, and why...
by lambertstrether on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:43:35 PM PDT
I'm leaning Edwards at this point, but truly torn. Thanks for the help.
John McCain: The only mavericky straight-talker surrounded by corporate lobbyists
by atrexler on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:42:56 PM PDT
And a good choice! Please accept a four...
Cindy McCain: "In Arizona The Only Way To Get Around The State Is By Small Private Plane"
by assyrian64 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:46:54 PM PDT
from left to right at the hands of the manipulators in government and in the media. But every once in a while, perhaps in a generation do we have a real opportunity to break away from this cycle-- more of a death spiral in recent years.
Not one individual is capable of breaking the country away from this cycle alone, but one person can certainly inspire others to begin the process. Creating a positive work in progress for the common good is the only way left out of our current predicaments. And if hope is defined as the abandonment of cynicism, and compromise as the setting aside of hostilities for the sake our national integrity, we are understanding the message he's bringing.
We can help this man inspire us by knowing he hears us and knowing that we've heard him by our votes.
There has to be an invisible sun / That gives us hope when the whole day's done -Police
by rightiswrong on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:56:31 PM PDT
by BoringDem on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:56:38 PM PDT
by BoringDem on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:57:08 PM PDT
You are a child of the universe; no less than the trees and the stars... Desiderata
by byteb on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 12:58:19 PM PDT
and I'm reccing your astute comment.
John McCain: Vowing to connect real leaders with real bowels
by chicago minx on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:07:13 PM PDT
... who have talked a ton and voted rather little like progressives, Obama has a voting record we can all be proud of.
So he indeed walked it!
by baronzito on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:04:26 PM PDT
i'm pretty much down with exactly what you said. still officially undecided between obama and edwards, but i'm leaning toward obama at the moment. because of what you said, but also because of the primary-time stupidity of other candidates' supporters.
it seems most of the dumbass "gotcha" stuff is being directed at obama right now, and that just backfires with me. especially this whole narrative of "right-wing talking points" and the idea that he's attacking al gore and john kerry by pointing out that the last two presidential elections have seen a very divided nation, exactly the same stuff we've been saying around here for years.
but my favorite had to be the clinton-supporter diary that attempted to prove that obama was using right-wing talking points to attack ted kennedy. the proof: a 30-second video clip from 2003 of obama adressing the afl-cio wherein he exhorts kennedy to get some spine and stand up to the republicans. that's how ridiculous it's gotten.
the other thing is that he appears to have the kind of charisma and political savvy to have most of the stupid stuff roll off his back and not put a dent in his campaign. even the corporate media seems to have had no luck pushing their BS, like about his name sounding like osama, or his middle name being hussein or any of the rest. so if any of our field has a reagan-level teflon coat, it's obama. normally that wouldn't be important to me, except this time i think you're right: it's about to hit the fan. and the GOP and RWCM are going to try to blame us when the last 8, 18 or 38 years of republican misrule blow up in uncle sam's face. we cannot let that nonsense stick to us.
still like edwards, a lot, with the agressive populism. my ideal matchup would be edwards v. huckabee. that way the economic populist agenda would be a done deal. and watching the punditariat soil their pants over that one would have me laughing all the way to november.
the one thing that does worry me about obama is the possibility that he would try to get reconciliation without justice. "water under the bridge" and all that. i'm worried because if there are no penalties for this administration's attacks on the constitution, we'll be setting a precedent by default that "unitary executive" is within accepted parameters. and if there are no prosecutions and punishment for war crimes, there's no chance we regain even the slightest degree of moral leadership in the world.
l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!
by zeke L on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:33:28 PM PDT
I pushed play on the video expecting to have to wince at an unfortunate moment for my preferred candidate, but then he comes out swinging for the good guys!!! And he's chastised for this?
"Not This Time"
by pragprogress on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:41:58 PM PDT
when i watched it i really thought it was a snark diary mocking the whole concept. but no, on it went with the same stuff. and i then remembered that poster was in the hillary camp.
i mean, i'm a hardcore partisan and all, but god help me if my brain ever gets so addled by it that i watch something like that and really think it shows the exact opposite of what any sane thinking human would conclude.
oh, and the other one was the "trial lawyer" crack. cheap shot? maybe. but c'mon, it was a throwaway line, and we're in the thick of it. people are now trying to make it sound like obama is "going after trial lawyers" and pushing for "tort reform" just because when the GOP says that phrase, they say it like "ambulance chaser." but last time i checked, "trial lawyer" was the actual name of that profession. using it in a throwaway line is by no means a sustained attack on the profession, still less adopting the republican attack on anyone standing in the way of corporate greed.
i can't wait for primary season to be over.
by zeke L on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 01:55:17 PM PDT
by SignalSuzie on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 04:52:35 PM PDT
As I've said before, Obama is the Bill Clinton of THIS generation: Smooth, full of charm, capable of connecting with people on a rhetorical level . . . and at heart, a corporate moderate Democrat that will do whatever it takes to cement his hold on power.
I think you delude yourself if you think that today's "Bill Clinton' is going to have any easier time pushing legislation through than the original Bill Clinton did once he got into office in 1993. For example, I remember that at the beginning of 1993, Clinton gave a speech arguing for the need for a tax increase, especially on the wealthy. Immediately after the speech, a poll was taken showing that Clinton's appeal had connected and something like 70% of the American people were willing to abide by a tax increase to balance the budget and take care of our fiscal problems.
However, several months later, after months of Republican rhetoric hammering his proposal--months during which the Clinton Administration DID NOTHING to answer those Republican attacks--he was only able to pass his budget raising taxes on the rich by ONE VOTE in the Senate . . . and public opinion that once supported him, had now eroded. Meanwhile, from that point on, I saw betrayal after betrayal after betrayal take place on the part of the Clinton Administration as he offered only token support in the face of Republican obstructionism for the the proposals he had campaigned on.
We DON"T need another Bill Clinton today. Bill Clinton ultimately sold out progressives. He talked a good game, and often failed to deliver for those that got him into office. He DID deliver, however, for corporate America.
Obama will do the same thing, or will at least be this decade's version of what Bill Clinton did and was.
You delude yourself if you believe the force of Obama's personality and rhetorical skills is somehow going to "unite the country" behind the idea of change, and voila, that's going to be our secret weapon to bring change about.
Listen, buddy. I already lived through the Clinton years. Clinton's betrayals and fuck ups during 1993 turned me off to the Democratic Party and to politics for the NEXT EIGHT YEARS.
The last thing this country needs is another Bill Clinton. We've been down this road before, and I don't think we need to go down the same road again.
Obama may talk a good game, but HE WILL SELL YOU OUT AND BETRAY YOU in favor of maintaining his power, not rocking to boat too much in terms of the way politics operates in D.C., and not really fighting for progressive change.
Mark my words.
by LivinginReality on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 05:00:37 PM PDT
"he will sell you out and betray you", I think he is setting very high expectations about what kind of change he will be able to bring, expectations that cannot be met by his own actions alone. They depend on independents and Republicans continuing to maintain a positive view of him while he enacts progressive legislation. Or progressives continuing to maintain a positive view of him while he enacts centrist, compromising, or no legislation.
Often, Obama's kind of rhetoric combined with general favorability is possible when the person saying them seems non-threatening: Michael Dukakis, for example, had a 66% favorability rating in 1988 (compared with just 51% for George H.W. Bush); John McCain today has the lowest unfavorables because he has been out of the spotlight for most of the autumn and summer. Hillary Clinton's favorables were much higher before she announced her candidacy. Once the public starts to feel that a candidate (a) represents something substantive and (b) could actually win real power, favorability tends to take a nosedive.
I have said before that I think Obama has the most impressive ideas (I guess I meant message). And I agree with the diarist that what we need is to move toward the future. But the question is this-- is this message-- this message of turning the page to the future, of the audacity of hope, of bringing Americans together based on shared values-- is it just an appendage of a campaign? Or is it a real movement of ideas that extends beyond one man or one campaign?
Because if it is the latter, as I believe it is, then these ideas are not tied to any one man or one campaign. They can survive the here and now and continue to thrive even more, just as Ronald Reagan's conservative ideas survived 1964 and 1976. And if that is the case, than Obama is not the only one who can implement those ideas, or the only candidate that can help bring about de-polarization. Producing positive results are the greatest long-term depolarizer, because it melts away opposition by turning the debate to a question of valence. The second de-polarizer is non-extremism. This is not to be confused with lack of passion or principle, but polarization often happens when parties are ripped apart and reorganized around highly polarizing issues. By implementing progressive policies moderately and effectively, we can best accomplish Obama's vision.
by Wufacta on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 06:33:40 PM PDT
And while I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you, I believe you are living in a fantasy land.
Obama is an establishment candidate. He will do little or nothing to rock the boat of the establishment. His rhetoric will allow progressives such as yourself to project their hopes for change onto him, while at the same time he will deliver little or nothing
And all this talk about getting Republicans on board is ridiculous and is nothing more than another strategy for appeasement and compromise.
I read your post and it reads like something some rarified D.C. pundit that lives in his own head and is love with his own ideas--but who does not actually live in emperical reality--came up with.
Why don't you just join the bi-partisan "Unity" movement if you really believe this stuff that you just wrote?
Wake up and get out of the fantasy world in your head. Progressive change was NEVER won in this country by playing nice. It always came as a result of militant struggle and confrontation, often to the point that blood was shed and heads were busted.
Really now. The sad thing is I don't think you realize how Pollyans-ish your post comes across. I really think that you are living in a dream world.
by LivinginReality on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 08:33:14 PM PDT
JFK was a marvelous and inspiring speaker with a first rate speech writer, Ted Sorenson. He was also a Bourbon Democrat who gave lip service to reform while providing very little. He made a mess of Cuba, a problem we still live with here in South Florida, and initiated the Viet Nam war to stop communism there before it reached here. We know how that turned out. He was a corporate Democrat, unable to deliver much to regular folks other than hope that, prior to his death, was turning to dispair.
Lyndon Johnson, and his ability to take a progressive fight to Congress and the American people, accomplished most of what Kennedy talked about. Kennedy, in the fog of history, gets the credit.
The great irony of all of this is the staggering difference between perception and reality. As it turned out, Ted Kennedy has given more to the reality of governing than either of his two brothers. It is rarely remembered, for example, that RFK's beginning was as counsel to the anti-communisit witch hunter, Joseph McCarthy, who destroyed the lives of some of our most important writers and artists.
Indeed, this article really identifies my nagging problem with Obama. Hearing little substance but the occasional echo of an Edwards program he is compelled to discuss, he appears all sizzle, but little substance. Like JFK was.
by Wally in Miami on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 06:14:44 PM PDT
wide narrow
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