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I can't believe the Clinton campaign wants to keep this going...
One Million Strong --- Join up!
by psericks on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:46:58 AM PDT
We work hard to register students on campus, because it's often not feasible for students to return home, and most wont fill out absentee paperwork.
Getting college students to vote is crucially important, because if someone votes 3 times before they're 30 the odds are overwhelming that they will continue for life, typically for the same party.
I'm not a clinton supporter, but I won't have any problems getting in line if she wins the primary. Still, this is disappointing to hear.
Member of the Drexel University College Democrats.
by IntertubeGuy on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:53:17 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
they've denied themselves the right to vote.
Senator McCain, we don't have to twist everything that comes out of a Republican's mouth - you guys come pre-twisted.
by PatsBard on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:00:00 AM PDT
states with caucuses on February 5th, such as Minnesota, they can't vote absentee.
by psericks on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:02:05 AM PDT
Is Maine just weird? Our state allows for absentee voting in caucuses, you just can't change preferences mid-caucus like you could if you were present.
Send this Turn Maine Blue blogger to Denver! Click here to donate.
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:36:34 AM PDT
The Dem caucus is where all the dem delegates will be chosen. The primary is created by the Repubs to make people think they are voting for presidential nominees. The repubs will choose 1/2 of their electable delegates in the primary which is always moot since they will have already decreed to the wingnuts who shall be the nominee.
Absentee ballots will be available for the primary and a nearly never used caucus surrogate form which is only avaailable to military, religious, or disability absentees.
http://www.wa-democrats.org/...
The biggest threat to America is not communism, it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy... -- Frank Zappa
by NCrefugee on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:24:16 AM PDT
Really? I didn't know that. There is no absentee at the Iowa caucus either. It's all about the people in the room.
Being angry that the captain isn't doing enough to stop the sharks is no good reason to harpoon the lifeboat.
by Sun dog on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:32:11 AM PDT
Your ability to vote in an IA caucus is determined by you voter registration. The county clerk [as I recall] determines who can and can not register.
Student registration was settled law a long time ago in IA. From my feeble old grey brain cells, I think it was an issue when the right to vote was given to 18 year olds. How long ago was that?
Also, a 'caucus vote' is not a direct vote. An IA caucus is a meeting of the "Party" in a precinct to determine who will represent them at the County Convention. The County Convention then elects 'delegates' to the District-State party conventions. At the State Convention delegates are elected for the National Convention. They also elect County Party Committee members. In the same process you elect Party Platform Committee members.
"...fighting the wildfires of my life with squirt guns."
by deMemedeMedia on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 03:59:57 PM PDT
of why they should be denied the vote when they live.
by psericks on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:02:34 AM PDT
I added the tag. This Hillary "corruption" has got to be nipped in the bud.
I trust Barack Obama.
by mjd in florida on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:25:49 AM PDT
Go Barack Obama
by concerned on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:06:57 PM PDT
.......because she is showing early signs of tanking and she is well aware that most college students are not among her supporters.
by calibpatriot on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 04:33:31 PM PDT
resident tuition? If it's out-of-state, then they don't "live" in the state where the college is located.
by PatsBard on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:17:01 AM PDT
based basically on where your parents live, but there are no such rules for voting.
The Iowa Secretary of State's website, as posted in this thread, encourages Iowa students from out of state to register to vote and to participate.
by psericks on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:21:48 AM PDT
one of the things that's often considered when you're requesting in-state tuition is whether you're registered to vote there, whether your car is registered there, and if you have your driver's license there.
Especially if you're over 23, a veteran, married, or a parent (all things that can make you an independent student for FA purposes).
by mmacdDE on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:29:24 AM PDT
by concerned on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:10:35 PM PDT
by concerned on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:08:49 PM PDT
Paying In/Out of state tuition has absolutely NO bearing on whether someone has the legal right to vote in that state as a resident.
Rules vary state-to-state. Here in Wisconsin, you can vote in any election if you have lived here for eleven days. And you can even register the day of the election. I am sure the law varies in Iowa, but the type of tuition you pay doesn't mean squat.
"Cynicism is a sorry wisdom." - Barack Obama
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:36:20 AM PDT
Clinton is to Students as
A. Republicans are to Blacks
B. Obama is to Students
C. Democrats are to the American People
D. Itchy is to Scratchy.
Good luck . . .
by klw1963 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:54:33 AM PDT
I was kinda hungover, but still managed a 1430 somehow.
Did you have a fucking point somewhere?
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:42:42 PM PDT
sorry bout the F-bomb.
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:45:43 PM PDT
A was my point . . .
1430 - - look at the big brains on on Blue Genes . . . ;)
by klw1963 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 03:48:15 PM PDT
E. Tancredo is to Latinos
Blue Jersey. All the news that slips from print.
by Scott in NJ on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:15:28 PM PDT
Students are permitted to vote where they attend school in pretty much every, if not all states. Iowa is no exception to the rule, and even encourages them to go out and participate.
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:38:10 AM PDT
by PatsBard on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:42:24 AM PDT
According to FAFSA students are not allowed to claim financial independence from their parents until they are 24 - unless they are a Veteran, orphan, a parent themselves, etc. I believe in all there are 6 exceptions. The vast majority of students don't fall under those exceptions. As a result, students are required to put their parent's information on FAFSA forms until they are 24.
So...the fact that I moved out of my mother's house at 18, paid my own taxes, lived by myself (in my college town), paid all my own bills, and didn't talk to my mother for over 2 years - none of that mattered to FAFSA, or to the school's financial aid office.
However- according to STATE law, I am allowed to register to vote at my residence. Period. If my residence is primarily in my college dorm, or apartment AT College, then that's where I register to vote.
Some schools have programs for students to get in-state tuition after 2 years of paying out-of-state tuition. The parent's forms are STILL submitted, but because the STUDENT is considered a resident, they pay in-state tuition fees instead.
This is really not as complicated as it sounds.
Iowa law says that students are more than welcome to register to vote in the state of Iowa.
The fact that Hillary and Dodd (but let's face it, Hillary is keeping this story going) are willing to attempt to suppress voters - JUST like Republicans have done (in Iowa and Ohio and PA, and other states in the previous years) - says quite a bit to me about how they feel about voting rights in this country. Disenfranchisement is WRONG. Period.
Obama, or McCain
by Elise on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:06:22 AM PDT
One of the reasons that CT has another Democratic Representative (Joe Courtney) is there was a push at Uconn to register students there to vote in the district against Rob Simmons. As long as students are only voting once they should be able to vote wherever they chose.
by pgm 01 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:07:26 PM PDT
Iowa law is crystal clear on this issue. If you go to school in Iowa you can vote in Iowa. There is no gray area.
When McCain talks he sounds like an evil Mr. Rogers.
by clonecone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 01:16:56 PM PDT
by concerned on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:13:23 PM PDT
you’re only allowed to vote absentee if you’ve voted in person in a previous election. Students from MI who want to participate in their first election, and who’ve gone out of state for college, can’t vote unless they’re allowed to vote where they go to school.
Any force that tries to make you feel shame for being who you are...is a form of tyranny... And it must be rejected, resisted, and defeated. ~Al Gore
by Sinister Rae on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:00:40 AM PDT
I don't doubt what you're saying here, but when did it change? I turned 18 in 1996, and voted for the first time in that November's Presidential election. I was down in Grand Rapids for high school but voted absentee in my hometown in the UP.
Again, I'm sure you're correct, I just don't remember when this rule took effect.
---- now they sit and rattle their bones and think of their bloodstone days...
by TooFolkGR on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:48:59 AM PDT
I ran into when trying to register students in 2004.
by Sinister Rae on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:58:55 AM PDT
to vote at their college address, and should be allowed to do so if that's their choice. I have three kids in college; one votes with her college address and the other two at home with absentee ballots. Both options should be (and I believe are) available to college students.
by Lujane on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:05:36 PM PDT
You show up or you don't, and showing up late is like not showing up at all.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. - Mahatma Gandhi (-8.12,-7.49)
by pleasedontbefake on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:55:15 PM PDT
are not what we need from any Democrat right now. If we don't all stand together, we will each hang separately.
It is especially important to engage and encourage young people. That Clinton personally doesn't think so speaks volumes about the kind of hidebound Establishment candidate she is.
Go Obama! (And Edwards.)
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.
by The Lighthouse Keeper on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:23:39 AM PDT
elections, especially federal elections, are held in November - in the middle of the term. If students don't remember to request and absentee ballot, they won't be able to vote unless they change their voter registration.
If they stay at the same school for the 4 or 5 yrs it takes them to get their degree, they'll be living in the state LONGER than a lot of people might.
So I guess somebody who moves for their job should have to stay put 4-5 yrs before THEY can vote too, right?
by mmacdDE on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:26:41 AM PDT
and local elections where they live. Everyone has a right to register where they have a primary residence. For College students, Clinton ought to encourage them to do so, not discourage them.
by IndySteve on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:00:33 AM PDT
and a big part of every campaign/caucus season i can remember is having candidates come onto campus to do events--obama came to ames almost directly after his announcement in springfield that he was running for president. there is always a push to get students involved--i have many memories of seeing candidates on campus at events designed to draw students. i doubt the intention was to have the students participate in the campaign season, and then sit out the election because they were on campus on voting day, instead of in their hometowns! and there have always been students who grew up outside of the iowa borders attending iowa state, who participated in the political process--including local city council elections--in ames!
on another note, my husband and i left ames to go to college in minnesota. i was always organized, and would get an absentee ballot to vote back in iowa. but he wasn't on the ball, and registered to vote in minnesota. no harm, no foul. we were both completely legitimate voters!
by sunhaws on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:36:49 PM PDT
During my time in Ames as an "out-of-state" student I participated in two presidential caucuses and was registered to vote there the whole time. The action of the Iowa state legislature and Ames city council had a much greater impact on my life than anything that happened in my home state.
The law says students can vote there and they are supposed to claim that as their residence with regards to the census. It's embarrassing that a Democratic candidate would be in favor of putting up barriers for voters. That's something I expect from the other side.
by pernoclone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 01:16:40 PM PDT
When I was president of ISU Democrats I personally registered hundreds of out of state students. This tactic to suppress the vote is sickening.
by clonecone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 01:19:32 PM PDT
three day old link to the Des Moines Register, my suspicion is that it's you that wants to keep this going.
For what it's worth, however, there are certainly issues related to out-of-state college students registering to vote in the state where they attend college. Issues which could impact their financial aid packages, their parents' taxes, etc.
populus vult decipi
by aggieric on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:55:59 AM PDT
that is a red herring.
This is all about Clinton wanting to discourage people who would vote for her opponent from participating.
Just like the Alberto Gonzalez DOJ.
"[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.
by Geekesque on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:57:42 AM PDT
Obama is exciting!!! Clinton---a Buzz-Kill!!!
by serrano on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:00:12 AM PDT
do for Obama's events----just a guess here----but I bet that Clinton wouldn't be trying to disenfranchise student voters. What I don't understand is--- why does she persist with this when what she's saying is clearly not the law in Iowa? My friend in Grinnell tried to get in to see Obama there yesterday but doors were closed---filled to capacity way before start time. Students overwhemingly support Obama. Do you spose this is the real reason behind Clinton's sudden interest in curbing the youth vote?
by dotster on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:07:41 AM PDT
by mjd in florida on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:11:48 AM PDT
ones in the zoo. Umm... just saying. Like cause there are no woods in the zoo. Oh maybe the more progressive ones but...well the more progressive zoos not the more progressive bears. I just don't think bears are very political that's all. I mean, that would be silly.
Where was I??
"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:18:21 AM PDT
by mjd in florida on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:28:53 AM PDT
the biggest threat facing America.
I know this because Stephen Colbert told me.
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:39:15 AM PDT
I'm from small town Alaska originally. In my experience bears like to poop on the road. Don't ask me why, they just do.
by nisleib on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:43:13 AM PDT
And short fenceposts.
Why, why, why?
I will give 100 'recs' to any Kossack that can answer this question, which has been bugging me for years (since a friend pointed it out to me at a local dog park)
by MyOwnClone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:45:23 AM PDT
I thought that my labs pooped on the bottom of my sneakers. That is until my wife pointed out that: 1. I don't like to clean the yard and 2. I don't watch where I'm stepping.
ps. I secretly still think they are pooping on the bottom of my shoes. Don't tell my wife.
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:53:55 AM PDT
Be open minded to shitting on short fenceposts, thats all im sayin....
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:40:03 AM PDT
The question is: why not?
Determining whether or not this comment is snark is left as an exercise for the reader.
by aztecraingod on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:52:30 PM PDT
because then they can see it better. Nothing worse than stepping on sh!t in your bear feet.
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:54:47 AM PDT
reminds me of the Eddie Murphy joke about the bear pooping while talking to the bunny.
by nisleib on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:04:36 AM PDT
... is about the only one I'm willing to partake of in this particular diary.
And, btw, what is the Eddie Murphy joke? Tried to Google it, no luck.
by MyOwnClone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:11:24 AM PDT
But then again - I am typically predisposed to talking sh!t. Never outgrew that phase.
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:14:33 AM PDT
I've been out of diapers since 1965, and I still think it's hilarious.
OT: I was setting up a garage sale this summer, and looked at the surface of my dining-room table in full sunlight. Etched indelibly into the wood, clearly, was the word, "POOPIE". It was in my handwriting, from a long-ago game of Cranium or Scattergories or some such, when I was laughing so hard I wrote the word really hard.
by MyOwnClone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:20:23 AM PDT
Bear is pooping in the woods.
He sees an bunny nearby. Asks the bunny, "when you go #2, does the shit stick to your fur?"
Bunny says, "Nope."
So the bear grabs the bunny and uses it to wipe himself.
Political Compass: -7.13, -5.13
by thiroy on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:28:45 AM PDT
Students overwhemingly support Obama. Do you spose this is the real reason behind Clinton's sudden interest in curbing the youth vote?
Of course it is. It's the same reason Republicans curb the Black vote. She's just going back to her Republican Goldwater girl roots.
by William Domingo on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 04:14:14 PM PDT
and purges. When live in a state to go to school that seems to me to be your primary residence. She had no problem establishing a iffy residency in another state when she ran for senator in NY.
"And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Bob Dylan
by shaharazade on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:24:00 AM PDT
by inclusiveheart on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:54:52 AM PDT
link
on the history of this issue. It doesn't just seem like voter suppression; it is voter suppression.
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
by kyril on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:10:31 AM PDT
by psericks on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:42:57 AM PDT
this issue so far. Kyril's diary is a must-read.
by GN1927 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 04:03:20 PM PDT
by shaharazade on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 05:50:29 PM PDT
Since, last I looked, there were 48 other States besides Illinois. I'm pretty sure my home state does not have reciprocity with Iowa.
The problem is what's to stop an out of state student from caucusing in Iowa, then casting a ballot in their home state's primary? (Voting early and often might be acceptable in Illinois, especially in the Chicago area, but it is discouraged in the rest of the country)
The most dangerous spot in Washington is between Chuck Schumer and a TV camera.
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:00:21 AM PDT
the Clinton folks are worried about.
by Geekesque on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:01:14 AM PDT
for the opportunity to commit voter fraud on a massive scale.
Has this been a problem in past years? Or other states that also allow students to vote/caucus. This system has been in place for quite some time.
John McCain loves lobbyists
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:14:01 AM PDT
I could either vote absentee in my home state, or not vote. Pretty simple.
I suppose that, in your view, fraud is okay if it's on a small scale?
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:16:06 AM PDT
Is the only thing keeping you from voting twice your sense that it would be hard to pull off?
I attended college out of state, and voted in my college town during my senior year. Should I have not been allowed to do that? My parents had moved away from my high school town and I had no intention of ever going back there. I had only been to their new town (and state) once, for two days. I'm not even sure whether it would have been possible for me to vote there. Not so simple. Not everyone's situation is as straightforward as yours.
Does that change anything for you? Should the law try to take into account all these possibilities and provide a set option for each one or is better to just let each student decide?
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:22:38 AM PDT
If not, then you most certainly should not have been allowed to vote in that state's elections. You would have to take up your extenuating circumstances with your state's board of elections, just like every other citizen.
Does being a student grant a person some super special rights to vote wherever they please not afforded to any other citizens?
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:39:31 AM PDT
They can choose where they reside. It isn't as if Delay really resided in Texas now is it? At least a college student ACTUALLY lives there.
I go forth to make new demands on life. Do something that is worthy of it and me. May I dare as I have never done! May I persevere as I have never done!-HDT
by Democrat on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:46:33 AM PDT
To determine the threshold for residency. One can choose where they reside only after they have met a state's residency requirements.
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:51:37 AM PDT
a certain type of voter is eligible, the candidates should respect that, don't you think? Rather than trying to drum up public sentiment against that segment of the voting public?
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:55:23 AM PDT
that is eligible is one that is a resident (i.e. an Iowan) But, if Iowa is willing to let any Tom, Dick, or Mary caucus in their state, regardless of residency, then that's Iowa's business.
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:02:46 AM PDT
that students can decide on the day of the caucus that they are Iowa residents, register, and caucus, that's their business, right?
And I assume we can all trust that Iowa has some system in place for dealing with all the various contingencies, since they've done this for a long time?
Which is why I think its kind of BS for any of our candidates to imply that maybe Iowa law is wrong, or that there is confusion about the law where there isn't any, just because more college voters hurts his/her electoral chances.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:23:00 AM PDT
The only requirement for being a citizen for the purpose of voting is having a physical address and 30 days residency. We establish different rules for some services, but this is settled law nationally. Ask Alan Keyes.
by ArchPundit on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:50:52 AM PDT
No durational residency requirement.10-day registration requirement. In-person registration by 5 P.M., 11 days before election date, 10 days for statewide primary and general elections.
Residency requirements for voting
by pgm 01 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:24:55 PM PDT
registration people said I should, I'm sure. But you make establishing residency in a state sound hard. It is typically more like declaring residency - bring in a piece of mail, fill out a form and you're done, yes?
Downthread, someone posted that this issue of students voting where they attend school went all the way to the Supreme Court in the late 70s. But I guess you and Senator Clinton know better.
By the way, I don't think my circumstance were all that "extenuating." People's lives are complicated, which is why the law gives students the choice.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:54:12 AM PDT
But you still have to do it, right?
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:04:33 AM PDT
But I trust that Iowa (and every state) has already solved this problem so that I don't have to solve it here on Daily Kos.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:24:27 AM PDT
by jqmilktoast on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:39:17 AM PDT
by kyril on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:11:42 AM PDT
is a far, far, far lower bar than getting college residency and the tuition reduction.
students play by the same rules that every other citizens do. usually it's something like living 2 weeks in the state before filling out paperwork.
we are citizens of america, not iowa.
surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat
by wu ming on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:27:01 AM PDT
Iowa law says so. Don't like it? Tough shit. Sell your suppression tactics where else. Maybe you and Katherine Harris can open a consulting firm.
by clonecone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 01:21:47 PM PDT
I was in exactly the same situation - right before my senior year, my parents had moved to a new state. I had no residence of any kind in the state where I grew up, and I didn't see how it was appropriate to vote in the state that my parents had just moved to. I'd spent the previous summer in my college state. So I voted there.
by nojonojo on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:00:50 AM PDT
that's when the Supreme Court decided that college students have the right to vote where they go to school, if they "establish residency." Rules re: establishing residency vary from state to state; maybe you went to school in a state where it was difficult to establish residency if your parents were paying for your education and lived in another state?
